advice and opinions on two form 1's (Progress & Updates)

[mx201er]

One of my good friends has an AR that he recently purchased and has been slowly customizing. He does not have any NFA items and his birthday is coming up, so I am planning to fill out a form 1 and write the check and give it to him. I am going to be doing one of my own at the same time, so we can go get them signed by the CLEO together and when we get the forms back, we will make them together. The only can I have made was a monocore .22 can, and I am going to be designing a .223 can for my buddy, and a can for a 10mm G20 for myself. I was hoping some of you with experience making some similar cans could share some tips

1. I was wondering what kind of pressures the .223 can needs to withstand, I can get some free stainless hydraulic pipe that is rated for 3k psi, that should work right?

2. I was hoping to be able to weld the barrel end of the can, and thread the front so it could be disassembled. Is a threaded end acceptable for a .223 can? How long of a thread surface is standard, and how thick should the wall thickness of the pipe be so the threads don't make it too weak?

3. I figured a standard K baffle design for the .223 can would work, and there are plenty of good tutorials on here for them. Is 1.5" tube what most use? And what is a good lenght that will give enough volume for expansion?

4. For the G20 can, I am planning to make a booster. I'll look around on here and see if I can find one with dimensions. I was planning on stainless pipe, just wasn't sure if I should use a couple stainless K's followed by some aluminum K's, or would flat washers or pressed cone washers be effective baffles? I was thinking the washers would save me a lot of weight but it would probably need a booster anyways ,right?

5. I know a 10mm is not the most practical thing to suppress, but It will also be for a .40 g22 and I reload, so It will be using light loads. I would like to make it able to withstand full loads just in case; any idea on the pressures of a factory loaded 10mm? should be quite a bit less than a .223 right?

Thanks for your help guys, I appreciate all of the great info on here. I know some of this has come up before, because I have read about it on here, but I can never seem to find something when I need it.

Nick

.........................................................................................................................................

Decided that we both would like .40 cans, so we will be building two identical cans

Trying to make time to go get signed off by CLEO next week, but in the mean time I have been thinking about designs and drawing up some ideas.






1.25" x ~8", I think I need to lose a baffle and extend the booster a little, based on others' designs posted here.

I have acquired, with some help from a fellow member, some 1.25" x .065 wall Ti tubing which I will be using. I am looking at some grade 5 solid titanium stock for at least the booster and the first few baffles, but I might use aluminum for the last few baffles if it will hold up good enough. The baffles will have a port drilled at an angle through them, but everything is designed in these drawings so that I will be able to do most everything on a CNC lathe.

[ghostdog662]

For determining the .223 , if it is stainless I would think anything over .060 wall thickness would be fine. You may want to check out online-metals.com and get a tube that you know exactly what material it is. Threaded end caps on .223 are acceptable as long as your wall thickness is still good at the threaded area. I prefer welded .223 because I don't shoot .22 through it and it's not going to get dirty enough to affect the noise level.

[delta9mda]

60 degree cones would serve you better than the k baffles. easier too.

[mx201er]

60 degree cones would serve you better than the k baffles. easier too.

For the pistol can, rifle can, or both?

Thanks for your helpful responses

[Bendersquint]

One of my good friends has an AR that he recently purchased and has been slowly customizing. He does not have any NFA items and his birthday is coming up, so I am planning to fill out a form 1 and write the check and give it to him. I am going to be doing one of my own at the same time, so we can go get them signed by the CLEO together and when we get the forms back, we will make them together. The only can I have made was a monocore .22 can, and I am going to be designing a .223 can for my buddy, and a can for a 10mm G20 for myself. I was hoping some of you with experience making some similar cans could share some tips

1. I was wondering what kind of pressures the .223 can needs to withstand, I can get some free stainless hydraulic pipe that is rated for 3k psi, that should work right?

2. I was hoping to be able to weld the barrel end of the can, and thread the front so it could be disassembled. Is a threaded end acceptable for a .223 can? How long of a thread surface is standard, and how thick should the wall thickness of the pipe be so the threads don't make it too weak?

3. I figured a standard K baffle design for the .223 can would work, and there are plenty of good tutorials on here for them. Is 1.5" tube what most use? And what is a good lenght that will give enough volume for expansion?

4. For the G20 can, I am planning to make a booster. I'll look around on here and see if I can find one with dimensions. I was planning on stainless pipe, just wasn't sure if I should use a couple stainless K's followed by some aluminum K's, or would flat washers or pressed cone washers be effective baffles? I was thinking the washers would save me a lot of weight but it would probably need a booster anyways ,right?

5. I know a 10mm is not the most practical thing to suppress, but It will also be for a .40 g22 and I reload, so It will be using light loads. I would like to make it able to withstand full loads just in case; any idea on the pressures of a factory loaded 10mm? should be quite a bit less than a .223 right?

Thanks for your help guys, I appreciate all of the great info on here. I know some of this has come up before, because I have read about it on here, but I can never seem to find something when I need it.

Nick

MX,

Heck of a friend you are, wish there were more guys that gave NFA as gifts!

1. You need tubing not pipe. SS tubing is pretty cheap, go to onlinemetals.com they have a good selection of good tubing. Just get it at least .065 wall if you plan on making it takedown. Pressures can be higher than 3K PSI with a .223, it depends on your barrel length and loading.

2. Yes you can have it threaded as long as you make the TPI strong enough for it. Honestly you don't need to take apart a .223 can, period. As long as you stay away from the whole 22lr.

3. K would work but I would go with the cone, its alot more efficient and cheaper to make as well. 1.5OD is the standard. Anywhere from 6.5-9" will give you good results.

4.With a stainless tube it will be awful heavy for your booster to attempt to cycle, stick with either Aluminum or Titanium. If you need some titanium let me know I buy in bulk. 1.25" tubing. PM me if you want some. Just make K's, don't waste your time with the pressed cones(not that great with a pistol caliber). If you have a SS tube you will HAVE to have a super effective booster. Gotta go lighter man!

5. Yes 10mm is less than 223 but I would suggest if thats what you are planning then definitely some titanium tubing is in your future.

-B

[PaulNoiseLess]

Hi,

Just to help you on the Baffle selection for the .223:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sFieFgiLgI

That’s an all SS 5 x K-Baffles one: 1.5 OD x 0.065 wall x 1.37 ID x 8.25 inches (end to end) x 20 ounces. Fully take apart.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=75042&start=25

That’s a Stepped Cones like one. You have more details on that one inside the Post.

There are more examples in the Forum. Use Google to search the Forum, it’s far better than the built in Search function.

For the other matters, I mostly agree with what has been said so far: Tube not Pipe, Alu/Ti tube for the Pistol, K's or ligth MonoCore for the G20, ...

Best,

Paul

[este]

Does you buddy want to build one? For absolute s--t markup that production cans have, I am convinced it's cheaper, faster and easier to buy than build (I have a few posts on the topic). No offense, but you're marginally clueless on rifle can construction with those questions you're asking. Just a few words of caution. However, at least you're building two instead of one, so that's something in your favor.

As a fun experiment you should file a form4 for you buddy and build you own. I have my own guesses on who's will be quieter, cheaper, faster, lighter, better.... I'm kind of joking but mostly not really. Some things are better left to experts IMO.

Does your buddy want a 223 silencer as a first can? They're FAR from quiet on ARs. Nothing at all like even a bad 22 can.

Like B said, you're a pretty good friend

[jimmym40a2]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=24866&p=243914&hil ... ns#p243914

This might give you a baseline to work from.

[este]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=24866&p=243914&hil ... ns#p243914

This might give you a baseline to work from.

That's a good link for a beginner. I would add the Suppressor Engineering 101 thread. That one is gold.

However, strickly with the above link the best case result is you end up with a fully functional Tac-16

Baseline is right.

[ghostdog662]

If you put some cone shapes on those almost flat baffles it wouldn't be terrible but nothing like omega or K's. I enjoyed that tac-16 photoshoot very much. If only they just increased the size of their tac65 for .223 and used stronger materials they would have a much better can. I know it's an older design but why would they insist on offering a basic, unimpressive can?

[Bendersquint]

If you put some cone shapes on those almost flat baffles it wouldn't be terrible but nothing like omega or K's. I enjoyed that tac-16 photoshoot very much. If only they just increased the size of their tac65 for .223 and used stronger materials they would have a much better can. I know it's an older design but why would they insist on offering a basic, unimpressive can?

"Still a good seller. Its selling fine, why change it?" Thats been said before when asked on why they don't update it.

-B

[mx201er]

Thanks for all of the help guys!
Okay, so far I am planning on a welded cone baffle design for the .223. I think I meant tubing, not exactly sure what defines it.. it is seamless mandrel drawn tubing, .065 wall I believe.

For the pistol can, I'll see if I can afford some Ti and try for some Ti and aluminum k's or stepped cone baffles..

I have looked into just purchasing a can, but for me, the majority of the fun is being able to say you built it! My buddy is the same way, so I think we'll go with that. I don't have much experience with rifle cans, but you gotta start somewhere, right? I have a lot of machining and welding experience and am confident with myself, and I was very happy with the results from my .22 monocore design with quick detatch

Thanks again to everyone

[este]

I have no idea as I'm not weldor, but I would be hesitant to try my own welded cones for fear of warping. I understand how AAC gets away with it using a robotic then later using edm, and maybe just spot welds are fine, but I just don't see hand welding without reaming or edm'ing the bore afterwards... Seems iffy.

Good luck with it.

[Bendersquint]

I have no idea as I'm not weldor, but I would be hesitant to try my own welded cones for fear of warping. I understand how AAC gets away with it using a robotic then later using edm, and maybe just spot welds are fine, but I just don't see hand welding without reaming or edm'ing the bore afterwards... Seems iffy.

Good luck with it.

With you on this one!!!

-B

[PaulNoiseLess]

Hi,

Why do you want to weld the Cones ?

If you work out in junctions (cone + spacer or spaced-cone + spaced+cone) then there is no need to weld just having average machining skills. For better concentricity, just align up the stack at the rear side with the Blast Spacer and at the Front end with the end cap.

I just did have to weld a Core once (just rear cap + blast spacer + blast baffle) and it was to better support full-auto. After welding, build threads and re-bore.

Best,

Paul

[mx201er]

Hi,

Why do you want to weld the Cones ?

If you work out in junctions (cone + spacer or spaced-cone + spaced+cone) then there is no need to weld just having average machining skills. For better concentricity, just align up the stack at the rear side with the Blast Spo.acer and at the Front end with the end cap.

I just did have to weld a Core once (just rear cap + blast spacer + blast baffle) and it was to better support full-auto. After welding, build threads and re-bore.

Best,

Paul

Exactly, why weld cones? Just weld the threaded barrel end cap on the tube and bore the inside of the tube concentric. Then the cones just need to be machined to tightly fit the tube with spacers, and they will be concentric to the bore.. welded or not, it is easy to run a bit down the bore after and make sure the hole is concentric

[Bendersquint]

Hi,

Why do you want to weld the Cones ?

If you work out in junctions (cone + spacer or spaced-cone + spaced+cone) then there is no need to weld just having average machining skills. For better concentricity, just align up the stack at the rear side with the Blast Spo.acer and at the Front end with the end cap.

I just did have to weld a Core once (just rear cap + blast spacer + blast baffle) and it was to better support full-auto. After welding, build threads and re-bore.

Best,

Paul

Exactly, why weld cones? Just weld the threaded barrel end cap on the tube and bore the inside of the tube concentric. Then the cones just need to be machined to tightly fit the tube with spacers, and they will be concentric to the bore.. welded or not, it is easy to run a bit down the bore after and make sure the hole is concentric

Or just Rocksett the mount in place when done. Seen a few F1's that used a set screw to prevent the unscrewing and it works quite well.

-B

[PaulNoiseLess]

Hi,

I got it now. Just remember you don’t need (even don’t want !) to have a Baffle bore diameter of 0,225 inches to have a good Can … you know …

I’m sure you’re going to have lot of fun building the Cans !. I can already see your eyes sparkling !

Best,

Paul

[mx201er]

Well I will keep you guys up to date on the progress, hoping to get the forms out in the next month

[mx201er]

updates at top^^

[SRM]

I have a titanium .308 can and it likes to shoot out sparks so......
I dont know if I like titanium in a centerfire rifle can.

[mx201er]

I have a titanium .308 can and it likes to shoot out sparks so......
I dont know if I like titanium in a centerfire rifle can.

I wonder what is causing that? Are you getting baffle strikes?

[Bendersquint]

I have a titanium .308 can and it likes to shoot out sparks so......
I dont know if I like titanium in a centerfire rifle can.

I wonder what is causing that? Are you getting baffle strikes?

Nope titanium sparks when its blasted with burning powder!

Basically my understanding is that the burning particles create a raw surface on the titanium which ignites in a spark.

Really cool to see titanium spark in a blast cabinet with abrasive media, only thing that produces more sparks is a grinder!

-B

[mx201er]

I have a titanium .308 can and it likes to shoot out sparks so......
I dont know if I like titanium in a centerfire rifle can.

I wonder what is causing that? Are you getting baffle strikes?

Nope titanium sparks when its blasted with burning powder!

Basically my understanding is that the burning particles create a raw surface on the titanium which ignites in a spark.

Really cool to see titanium spark in a blast cabinet with abrasive media, only thing that produces more sparks is a grinder!

-B

Wow, never heard of that! Pretty interesting