Aluminum in a centerfire rifle can

[Capt. Link.]

Center-fire rifle caliber cans and aluminum don't mix.All you see below were designed by experts all were aluminum.At some point in time if subjected to the stress of rifle caliber ammo this will happen due to metal fatigue the rapid rise and fall of pressure inside a suppressor can is greater than the stresses theses items faced.Do you wish to be near when your Aluminum .243 wonder can blows on shot 501

[ghostdog662]

In countries that allow this, maybe you could get away with it if you used a monocore with end caps that thread into the core to create the seal. Then after X number of safe shots you could replace your fatigued aluminum main tube with one of the same length.

But all that aside you could just make one out of 4130 or SS to start with and avoid all that crap.

[PaulNoiseLess]

Hi,

What you are talking about is about Suppressor’s Safety:

“The Best Safety Device is a CAREFUL WORKER, get the Safety habit !”

Safety is not about materials is about Human’s behavior. If you know what you are doing and your limitations, it’s fine; if not, you are done.

Lathes and Mills are not “bad Guys”, they are just Machines in hands of GOOD or BAD Machinists. That’s all. And we see plenty of hard core on that every day …

I’ve had 5 serious accidents in my live (due to my Job, Hunting, not having fun): None of them were due to my direct fault but, at the end of the day, all of them were my fault because I was not only in charge of the Hun but also in charge of the overall Safety of the Hunt.

My message on Suppressor’s Safety is clear: If you don’t know what you are doing, don’t focus or get lost on Alu versus SS, just go to the Shop and buy a Commercial Can !

Best,

Paul

[delta9mda]

Paul, why dont you argue making a can from plastics while you are at it.

[PaulNoiseLess]

Hi,

Delta, please, i just don't know what you mean. Explain and glad to answer.

Best,

Paul

[ghostdog662]

I think it boils down to, why put yourself at risk at all, as in use a material known to burst unpredictably and could kill someone, especially when there are readily available alternatives that ... won't kill you.

[Capt. Link.]

Paul I'm not a engineer but I do have a degree in metallurgy no fault of a machinist or design caused any of these tragedies it was caused by Aluminum metal fatigue.Ignorance is excusable stupidity is not as long as you advocate the use of Aluminum in center-fire rifle calibers you fall into the latter category.But then you don't care if you maim or kill someone with one of your designs if you did you would change your materials list carry insurance get bonded and let the world know what terrorist branch you represent.This post had nothing to do with you but you answered up defending a dangerous practice.Your bright-time to get wise.

[PTK]

100% aluminum? HELL NO. The endmost baffle or two being aluminum and the tube stainless or such? HELL NO. Stainless tube, stainless baffles, inconel blast baffle if you're lucky enough to have a cheap source.

Now, 9x19? 45? .22? Even .44 magnum, etc.? Sure, use (thick enough) aluminum.

What horrifies me the most is I've seen rifle cans made from 6061T6, with pinned in endcaps, thin baffles (also 6061), and the tube itself is marginal (or rather, would be marginal if it were made of stainless) ...just think of a 7.62x39 can with 0.0625" walls. Out of 6061.

[PTK]

Paul, why dont you argue making a can from plastics while you are at it.

How many shots would you like to get out of it?

If it weren't for the NFA and the $200 tax, I truly think we'd have cheap .22 cans out of plastic like nylon and other fairly high temp. plastics. $20, might get a 1,000 shots. I'd buy a handful if only there weren't that pesky $200 tax.

But yeah, Paul's right within the context. I can safely make items out of nearly any material. I can guarantee that they'll work - once. After that, not my problem and it's too complex a problem for me to do the math on anyway.

Paul, what Delta is saying is that while we certainly CAN make an aluminum .50 BMG can, it's not a good idea, at all. Sure, we can make a full auto 5.56 SBR rated can out of 6061. But it'll be huge, heavy, and will still ignite once it gets hot enough. I think he was just saying there's a difference between "able to do" and "should do", and we as MEs, machinists, etc., really ought to err on the side of caution, as we know better.

[PaulNoiseLess]

Hi,

Capt. Link

Did you really read and understood my Post ?

No, I don’t think so. You just went over, did not think about it, and just throw s--t on Myself !. As usual in others, but first time really painful from you.

That’s the way some of you do in the last few months. I just don’t care.

Read, understand then come back for a debate: Terrorist ?, what a hell are you talking about ?, Are you crazy now or what ?

I’m not defending anything at all, especially at Metals, be smart. I just don’t care if it’s Alu, SS, Ti, Comet, you know !

I’ll never ever forget your offensive words about me. You just s--t on me for fun, what I do and the quality of my work. That’s something I cannot forgive.

[Capt. Link.]

I have never said you were stupid you do have some ideas that are interesting.Why do you hide in the shadows.And you need to care what things are made of.I may joke around in fun but this is serious deadly serious.Represent your self for until you do you are a unknown person that may well be a terrorist funding arms against this nation.

[PaulNoiseLess]

Hi,

PTK:

Paul, what Delta is saying is that while we certainly CAN make an aluminum .50 BMG can, it's not a good idea, at all. Sure, we can make a full auto 5.56 SBR rated can out of 6061. But it'll be huge, heavy, and will still ignite once it gets hot enough. I think he was just saying there's a difference between "able to do" and "should do", and we as MEs, machinists, etc., really ought to err on the side of caution, as we know better.

Yes, I understand and fully agree and that’s the reason I did post this into another thread: KNOW YOUR LIMITATATION: Alu versus SS for .308WM.

Now, please, before you start to Bull s--t myself, read, study, think about it and the let’s have debate. That’s all I want.

That’s all.

Best,

Paul

[PTK]

Then you're both on the same page. Please don't be angry or upset over a misunderstanding or implied phrases, especially if English isn't your primary language. I, for one, LOVE to see your unconventional ideas on here.

[jimmym40a2]

I have aluminum spacers in my 50bmg can and it works fine. I'm not scared it will blow up. Of course it is surrounded by stainless.I have put hundreds of rounds thru it and and the shape has not changed at all.

[Capt. Link.]

I have aluminum spacers in my 50bmg can and it works fine. I'm not scared it will blow up. Of course it is surrounded by stainless.I have put hundreds of rounds thru it and and the shape has not changed at all.

Your use of aluminum spacers is safe.I don't think you would have used it for your tube though.

[jimmym40a2]

You are right

[PTK]

Yep, spacers can be whatever works since they're backed up by stainless (or similar) tubing. The baffles, tube, adapters? Those really ought not to be aluminum.

[Capt. Link.]

Hi,

What you are talking about is about Suppressor’s Safety:

“The Best Safety Device is a CAREFUL WORKER, get the Safety habit !”

Safety is not about materials is about Human’s behavior. If you know what you are doing and your limitations, it’s fine; if not, you are done.

Lathes and Mills are not “bad Guys”, they are just Machines in hands of GOOD or BAD Machinists. That’s all. And we see plenty of hard core on that every day …

I’ve had 5 serious accidents in my live (due to my Job, Hunting, not having fun): None of them were due to my direct fault but, at the end of the day, all of them were my fault because I was not only in charge of the Hun but also in charge of the overall Safety of the Hunt.

My message on Suppressor’s Safety is clear: If you don’t know what you are doing, don’t focus or get lost on Alu versus SS, just go to the Shop and buy a Commercial Can !

Best,

Paul

I started this thread just as a safety concern I blew up at Paul and I don't dislike Paul. He dose think out of the box and that is good.I don't buy into a language difficulty as his impersonations as a Aussie fooled alot of people.I do believe that he believes this is a safe material to use,and that is very disconcerting to me.I have re-read his post above and see no language that is unclear or can be defended as a misinterpretation.
Paul I have invited you out before on analysis of baffles and you have backed down.This is a area that is your strong point and you refuse to debate.You have been called on being from Australia and you backed down now it seams your backing down again on the use of aluminum.Why should we debate if your not going to and Unless you are James Bond why the cloak and dagger routine come out of the closet or state why you can't.I offered to buy you a cup of coffee where do I send it.

[82nd airborne]

Im not claiming to know any more about silencers or metalurgy than the next guy, but aluminum is not a safe material for centerfire rifle suppressors, exept for spacers, where completely surrounded by steel as mentioned above. Death from above, Airborne, All the way.

[delta9mda]

what i mean was if you are going to expound on the use of al for rifle cans then why not go plastic too. in other words i think even talking about the use of al for a rifle can (not spacers of course) is just plain dumb from a safety standpoint.

[PaulNoiseLess]

Hi,

Back to School. My new Pool table is perfect. My Ivory pool balls just roll out smoothly and quietly. I love the sound of the “first round pop” !

Delta, yes, Plastic is crazy for large calibers. Just for disposable silencers. I think Carbon Fiber is also a mistake and I think there is one Manufacturer there in USA that use it (Aries or Ares or Herpes, something like that)

OK, safety is about people and accidents are about people mistakes.

One of the mistakes that can end up into an accident is a wrong material selection: If you have an AR-15, 10 inches barrel and enjoy full auto, going Aluminum is just crazy. But it’s also crazy to build your own Suppressor if you know nothing about metals, machines, calibers, … they all can end up into an accident.

I do Hunting and all my Rifles now enjoy Tubeless Aluminum Cans (.223RM, .243WM, .308WM, .270WM and 30-06). After every single Hunt, I do clean the Can and carefully inspect. If I see any symptom of degradation I just replace the part. I know the rules and limitations and just work fine. I no longer have to load my own ammo to keep it low speeds. There are several Manufacturers in Europe that sells Aluminum Cans for Hunting. Here is one of them: http://www.a-tec.no

Find bellow some examples of accidents not related to Aluminum but to people mistakes (all Pics taken from SilencerTalk.com).

Best,

Paul

[delta9mda]

the top two cans are not al so that really proves the point, no al use for rifle cans.

[pmchenry]

Delta, yes, Plastic is crazy for large calibers. Just for disposable silencers. I think Carbon Fiber is also a mistake and I think there is one Manufacturer there in USA that use it (Aries or Ares or Herpes, something like that)

The A.R.I.E.S design incorporates a carbon fiber heat shield, which is only tasked with supporting the weight of the suppressor separate of the barrel. Between the muzzle and the suppressor, the shield is lined with a titanium collar and 4 titanium struts that act to keep the system aligned and stabilize barrel harmonics. By doing this, the suppressor itself is actually kept 2 inches forward of the muzzle itself, meaning no weight on the muzzle and no POI shift (the whole motivation of the complicated design really). The actual tube of the suppressor is titanium, as is the monocore baffle system. So while saying they "use carbon fiber" is techically correct, they're not asking the material to hold up to any gas pressure, just to support the weight of the entire system and distribute that weight to the receiver rather than the muzzle.

Oh and the weight of the entire system designed for an Accuracy International .338 Lapua? 1 lb 7 oz. God bless titanium and carbon fiber eh?

http://www.shootersdepot.com/aries.html

[PTK]

SD isn't such a great example for making a positive point.

[pmchenry]

SD isn't such a great example for making a positive point.

I'm no expert on commercial cans or manufacturer builds, but from what I've heard, I would agree with that. The only reason I chose to refute the carbon fiber comment was that in this particular example, they seem to have taken all the precautions to make the can safe and durable.