Designing first build... looking for critiques V2.1

[halfsquelch]

Hello silencer smithers I have been lurking around these forums for over a year and now that I am working on my first design I figure it is time to post. I am currently building a .308 bolt action rifle for hunting when I get to Alaska and intend on building a suppressor for it. Yes I know about the form 1 and I will be applying for it when I get back from my tour in Korea, but in the mean time I am working on the design for it. I also know that Omega baffles are a patented design and I have to get permission before I build them. I own a small CNC desktop mill and have access to a manual lathe so machining will not be a problem.

Anyway here is my first suppressor design, the Nyx.

Image removed to save bandwidth, see post 9 for revised version.

It is 2"OD and 13" in length.
The blast baffle is a modified version of one of Paul's Turbine baffles, the dark ring in the middle of the baffle is a sealed bearing.
The lighter colored parts are 7075 aluminum and the darker parts are 316SS.
And the end caps are there so that when it is not installed on the rifle it can be stored with water in it without it evaporating or spilling out.

No one question me about weight, this thing will be going on a 27.5" heavy barrel and I am a big guy so I don't care about having a heavy gun. But if you guys think that 2"OD and my current amount of baffles is overkill I have no problem making it smaller to cut on cost.

PLEASE feel free to comment on any design flaws that you may find or anything that you think could be made more effective.

Also would someone be able to explain why my hotmail account comes up with this error when I try to use it here.
"The e-mail address you entered is not allowed to be used."
I had to use my work email to register instead of my personal email.

Next project, a suppressor for my Beretta Px4 with rotating barrel. Don't tell me it can't be done it is just going to require a special QD mount and free spinning recoil booster.

[BLAKE2131]

i just had a customer of mine get a threaded barrel for his Px4 and he didnt listen so he destroyed his Mystic core but the tube is ok and Liberty is going to replace the core

i would leave the px4 alone and just get a 92 and a threaded bbl for it you might not need a booster with the 92

and how would you make a QD mount for it if you use the rail youll have a gap between the bbl and mount which it will make the gun loud and defeat the point of the suppressor

ive only seen a few pics of the factory mount and beretta doesnt list it on their site on either the civ or LE sites so i doubt if you can get it or if it even exists

you also said itll need a free spinning booster how will this work the can would just slide back and forth on the piston killin accuracy and possibly causing a baffle strike

for your 308 design i would get rid of that turbine blast baffle its a pressure vessel not a jet engine

go from 2" to 1.5 or 1.625" and make it 8-10" long

i wouldnt recommend shootin the can wet with high power ammo media takes up space that the high pressure gas needs to expand and why would you store a can wet sounds like corrosion heaven SS can rust and water could go down your bbl and start rust in it

i would go with SS rather than SS and 7075 just to make it easier to order stock to work with

i would use stepped 60º cones or just plain 60º cones i would ask bender about what is patented and what isnt

and the email thing ask silvers about that deal

I would try .350 opening up to .365 or .375 the further from the end of the bbl also

[elginrunner]

Ok so first of all, I've never made a silencer, or designed any... I just have a couple of questions, and a comment or two.

I dig the pseudo omega baffles and the subtle way you have a step directing the gas through the vent in the spacer. Your linky is broken by the way.

Why the bearing? I really can't see a reason for it. I suppose it would allow your blast baffle to spin like a top, but why would you want it to?? Any particular reason for the end caps, for your end caps?

As you can guess, I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box, it just had me puzzled.

[delta9mda]

why two front caps? spinning baffles? here we go again

stop making things harder than they need to be.

looks like its gonna be a cow too. there are a lot of improvements to be made here. can be way lighter and better.

[57fairlane]

The middle part with the baffles looks fine . . . I would ditch everything you've got besides that.

Also, you probably don't need that much coaxial vent. One vent hole would probably be fine.

[ghostdog662]

13" is pretty long, especially at 2" OD.

All of those threads are going to give the can lots of places to fail. I would just stick with threading the front cap and leaving it at that. There is no need for that stuff between the first baffle and where it attaches to the rifle.

I would remove 3 baffles and make the all of them the larger baffles. On the baffles, I would also move the hole so that it is positioned at the last step. Since the gas is flowing along the steps you want to make it an easy transition into that side chamber.

[halfsquelch]

Thanks for the input I will make changes and post a new design. As far as the end covers they are there not for storing it for long periods of time but so I can leave it in my range bag while it is not in use without running the risk of getting the rest of my stuff wet. All water would be removed at the end of the day before it goes back into my rifle case.

[ghostdog662]

Something like this

[halfsquelch]

Revisions have been made, it is now 1.75"OD and 10.75" in length and all 316SS. The bullet clearance has also been moved to .350 at the blast baffle, .375 for next 9 baffles, and .4 for the last baffle and the end cap.


Let me know if there is anything else that can be improved.

And Blake, as far as the Px4 suppressor goes the QD mount will not go onto the rail it will go onto the barrel. The barrel is not threaded so I will cut a groove into it allowing the suppressor mount to lock in keeping it from moving forward and the mount will hit the front end of the barrel keeping it from moving back. And only thing that I will be changing with the recoil booster is that instead of having grooves in the cylinder for the piston to follow it will be smooth allowing the piston to spin but not wobble.

[Bendersquint]

Revisions have been made, it is now 1.75"OD and 10.75" in length and all 316SS. The bullet clearance has also been moved to .350 at the blast baffle, .375 for next 9 baffles, and .4 for the last baffle and the end cap.


Let me know if there is anything else that can be improved.

And Blake, as far as the Px4 suppressor goes the QD mount will not go onto the rail it will go onto the barrel. The barrel is not threaded so I will cut a groove into it allowing the suppressor mount to lock in keeping it from moving forward and the mount will hit the front end of the barrel keeping it from moving back. And only thing that I will be changing with the recoil booster is that instead of having grooves in the cylinder for the piston to follow it will be smooth allowing the piston to spin but not wobble.

You missed Blake's point....the PX4 should not be suppressed, it will damage your suppressor more often than it will not and you don't want your suppressor to spin either.

There is only one way that I am aware of to suppress it without the possibility of damage.

As far as your design goes, you have way too many baffles and the ones at the end don't need to be as close as they are.

The Omega30 is 1.5" OD and I believe around 10 inches long, will have to dig mine out to count the baffles but its less than you have in your sketch.

Not always necessary to reinvent the wheel, even though everyone tries to.

[Bendersquint]

What is the purpose of the threads on the endcap, the external ones?

[halfsquelch]

Those threads are for end caps that would be installed so that it can be stored wet into my range bag or backpack for transportation so I don't get the rest of my gear wet.

[Bendersquint]

Those threads are for end caps that would be installed so that it can be stored wet into my range bag or backpack for transportation so I don't get the rest of my gear wet.

You do not want to be making this can WET, danger ensues if thats the case!

[halfsquelch]

Please enlighten me as to why it would be a bad idea to make this can wet and what about this can would make it dangerous.

[Bendersquint]

Please enlighten me as to why it would be a bad idea to make this can wet and what about this can would make it dangerous.

First and biggest is the Increase of pressure in the can due to the liquid.

Second is you won't notice enough of an increase in suppression to make it worthwhile.

[cwadej]

threadjack time. Why is trying to suppress the CX4 a bad idea? Explain it like I'm an idiot. I understand the barrel rotates, but nothing else.

thanks

[BLAKE2131]

Centerfire rifle cartridges have high muzzle pressures unlike pistols ie 9mm, 40, 45 and rimfire which have low muzzle pressure

when you put water in a can it takes up space that the gas can use to expand low pressure doesnt really matter but high pressure it does

this is from the gemtech site
Can/Should a rifle suppressor be shot "wet"?

No. A centerfire rifle suppressor should never be shot "wet". Using liquid inside the suppressor reduces the available volume for gas expansion. This increases the pressure and could cause the suppressor to bulge or burst which could injure or kill the shooter or bystanders. Centerfire rifle suppressors have much higher internal pressures than rimfire or pistol caliber suppressors.

If the suppressor becomes submerged, allow the unit to fully drain before shooting.

If needed for clandestine lab or in explosive gas environments in law enforcement or military use, a small amount (1 tsp) of water may be put into the suppressor to squelch spark or flame. Use coolant sparingly and cautiously, reference the warnings above about overpressure.

heres a link to show you about how much pressure a AR has at the gasport depending on barrel length
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2010armament/W ... pDater.pdf

you should have good success with 6 or 7 stepcones spaced about 1in apart and the blast baffle be about 1.5-1.75in from muzzle

this is the only way ive heard of the px4 being able to be suppressed but idk if its even real though
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27533856@N08/4645943469/

they are a nice pistol smooth on the cycling but was not meant to be suppressed sorry

also none of my boosters have grooves in them just a set screw the allows you to change the POI by pullin forward and rotating

but getting an extended bbl cutting a groove and using a collet type device might work but its a PITA to do all of that i would just use it for protection or home defense

[BLAKE2131]

cwadej not the Cx4 the Px4 is the pistol Cx4 is the carbine

[halfsquelch]

Blake, thank you very much, that is exactly what I was looking for in an answer. And that data also gives me plenty of reason to keep the cap on the exit end of the suppressor. It would take less time to remove a cap then to remove any water that may or may not have gotten inside a can while I am moving around in less than optimal environments.

As far as suppressing a Px4 one of the driving reasons I want to do it is because I was told it is not possible to make a stable barrel mounted suppressor for a rotating barrel. For other places that I have heard of a Px4 being suppressed look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIMTVLUBo6s

[dj_fatstyles]

i say go for it with the px4. if it works props to you.

[rogerme]

While I am all for innovation this IMHO is simply a mall ninja design. All kinds of bells and whistles that serve no real purpose. KISS is the way to go straight forward strong and dry lets not forget working.

[delta9mda]

While I am all for innovation this IMHO is simply a mall ninja design. All kinds of bells and whistles that serve no real purpose. KISS is the way to go straight forward strong and dry lets not forget working.

yes^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Bendersquint]

Blake, thank you very much, that is exactly what I was looking for in an answer. And that data also gives me plenty of reason to keep the cap on the exit end of the suppressor. It would take less time to remove a cap then to remove any water that may or may not have gotten inside a can while I am moving around in less than optimal environments.

Sounds like a plan then the first time that you forget(which you will) to remove that useless cover I will be happy to replace your endcap when you destroy yours.

As far as suppressing a Px4 one of the driving reasons I want to do it is because I was told it is not possible to make a stable barrel mounted suppressor for a rotating barrel. For other places that I have heard of a Px4 being suppressed look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIMTVLUBo6s

As long as you don't mind buying PX4 barrels and replacing silencers then go for it. Just because they suppressed it didn't mean it was safe or there was any longevity to it. I can do almost anything once or a couple times but not smart to do it longer.

[halfsquelch]

I am more likely to never install the end cap in the first place then forget to take it off lol... taking it out of the design.
Still need to re-space the baffles and move the blast baffle back a bit to 1.5+"
What else can I do to make it better?

On the topic of the Px4, the friend of mine who said it was not possible to mount a can on a rotating barrel bought me a 1/2 extended barrel for me to prove to him that it can be done. When that barrel breaks I will just mount the can on a different gun. Ether way I am not at a loss with that silencer because all the bet is for is that I can show him that the gun will still cycle with a silencer on it, he didn't say how long it had to last for, and when I show him that it works I get $300 which covers the tax stamp and the cost of materials.

EDIT:
The space from the muzzle to the blast baffle is now 1.625", from the blast baffle to the first baffle 1", and all others .95"

Still looking for anything else I can do to make it better.

[Capt. Link.]

Why can't you suppress a PX4.
Why do you think barrels will break is the design poorly executed and not able to withstand additional rotating forces.