Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
- Enfield577
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Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
Hi gents
I have been making quite a few 22 suppressors lately and aways looking for ways to cut time/cuts but keep quality high.
No up till now I always machine both end caps and tubes with threads but permanantly secure the rear endcap with Loctite (only the front cap is required to be removed for cleaning - to get the Ks out)
I wonderd if I could use an adhesive to permanantly secure the rear end cap rather than have to turn the threads.
I tried using loctite 609 with about a 0.002" - 0.003" clearance between the endcap and the tube and after about only 30 rounds the cap started creeping out.
Anone got any ideas or can suggest a grade of loctite that would hold. Needs to be totaly permanant
Thanks
I have been making quite a few 22 suppressors lately and aways looking for ways to cut time/cuts but keep quality high.
No up till now I always machine both end caps and tubes with threads but permanantly secure the rear endcap with Loctite (only the front cap is required to be removed for cleaning - to get the Ks out)
I wonderd if I could use an adhesive to permanantly secure the rear end cap rather than have to turn the threads.
I tried using loctite 609 with about a 0.002" - 0.003" clearance between the endcap and the tube and after about only 30 rounds the cap started creeping out.
Anone got any ideas or can suggest a grade of loctite that would hold. Needs to be totaly permanant
Thanks
Of all the things I've lost it's my mind I miss the most
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
Make it one piece to start with. Or thread with interference fit. Gota be quick on the later!
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
I can relate to this right here! My f1 can would do the same thing. I`m runnin it on a 10/22 sbr. I lost track but the mount would loosten after firing and stick the mount to the barrel.
Well, after about thirty times of tightening and loosening the mount to the tube its finnaly staying put. I use molly oil on the threads because of ss on ss. All I can figure is the threads needed to mate together ( tube and mount ) to get the propper fit. I thought about lapping them but did not want missalignment from impropper lapping(by hand).
Hope this helped.
Well, after about thirty times of tightening and loosening the mount to the tube its finnaly staying put. I use molly oil on the threads because of ss on ss. All I can figure is the threads needed to mate together ( tube and mount ) to get the propper fit. I thought about lapping them but did not want missalignment from impropper lapping(by hand).
Hope this helped.
- twodollarbill
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Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
I would have a hard time cleaning a 22lr can if both ends didn't come off.
Sometimes I have to tap out the baffles with a wood dowel after too many rounds.
If you are set on securing the mount end, try JB Weld or you could side drill it and pin it.
Sometimes I have to tap out the baffles with a wood dowel after too many rounds.
If you are set on securing the mount end, try JB Weld or you could side drill it and pin it.
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
I would have thought the 609 would do the trick Like 3000 PSi strenth on that stuff for close fit parts. Loctite and 2 small Pins 180 Deg out. ? other then welding it
Joe
Joe
It's truely amazing what the mind can conceive and prompt the hands to create <---Mine..
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Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
Welding will warp it. Never seen a weld that didn`t pull one way or the other.epicdoom wrote:I would have thought the 609 would do the trick Like 3000 PSi strenth on that stuff for close fit parts. Loctite and 2 small Pins 180 Deg out. ? other then welding it
Joe
Unless you are a Wicked welder!!!!
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
No welder can weld without some warping. The good welders know how to space the welds or change direction to adjust for it. I can stick two pieces of metal together but I am no "welder". My little brother is and has a few dozen different certifications to show it. He can weld anything. His shop even has a rig for welding plastic.SRM wrote: Welding will warp it. Never seen a weld that didn`t pull one way or the other.
Unless you are a Wicked welder!!!!
"If you carry a gun, people call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid about?"
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Clint Smith
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
Time for Wicked to chime in.
I`m not disagreeing with you.
Either way, not about welding, its about adhesieves and I have no futher input.
I`m not disagreeing with you.
Either way, not about welding, its about adhesieves and I have no futher input.
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
1) Heat the tube and then press fit the endcap into it while hot, so that when it cools down they stick. Be sure to machine a very slight groove on the inside of the tube, and leave a slight rim on the endcap so that they stay put forever.
2) Machine matching grooves into both the endcap edge and the tube's inner wall. Place locking ring into endcap groove. Press closed and press fit into tube. Locking ring should hold endcap inside.
3) Machine or crimp a small "lip" onto the edge of the tube. Now put the endcap into the tube through the other end, before the baffles. The pressure of the baffles will keep the endcap tight against the lip, the lip prevents it from falling out back, and the threaded front endcap keeps everything in place. And you can STILL tap everything out with a dowel if needs be! Probably the most complex solution however.
2) Machine matching grooves into both the endcap edge and the tube's inner wall. Place locking ring into endcap groove. Press closed and press fit into tube. Locking ring should hold endcap inside.
3) Machine or crimp a small "lip" onto the edge of the tube. Now put the endcap into the tube through the other end, before the baffles. The pressure of the baffles will keep the endcap tight against the lip, the lip prevents it from falling out back, and the threaded front endcap keeps everything in place. And you can STILL tap everything out with a dowel if needs be! Probably the most complex solution however.
"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people". -MAJ MALFUNCTION
- Enfield577
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Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
Thanks gents, all things to think about and maybe try a few experiments however is does not take too long to cut the threads so I guess for now I will stick with that.
A few points however, this is thin wall Aluminium tube and Aluminium end caps so not sure of the shrink fit, will it hole enough. The solid idea might be worth looking into
The other thing is that the end cap also needs to be secure from rotation as it will have force applied when screwing and unscrewing from the gun.
I have never had anyone come back with problems removing baffles from one end, however I believe that most never clean them . I have my first prototype still going strong and do just as you say SRM, poke the baffle out with a stick.
Welding would be good but I would also have concerns with distortion and I don't have a welder so I guess that wopuld be a problem , like to know about this plastic welding, must be hard strike and arc
I can think of ideas with pins etc but think it would be just as easy with the current threading method.
The only real quick option would be adhesive, but it just don't like it, was hoping you guys would know of a better grade of Loctite as we can get this product over here in NZ.
A few points however, this is thin wall Aluminium tube and Aluminium end caps so not sure of the shrink fit, will it hole enough. The solid idea might be worth looking into
The other thing is that the end cap also needs to be secure from rotation as it will have force applied when screwing and unscrewing from the gun.
I have never had anyone come back with problems removing baffles from one end, however I believe that most never clean them . I have my first prototype still going strong and do just as you say SRM, poke the baffle out with a stick.
Welding would be good but I would also have concerns with distortion and I don't have a welder so I guess that wopuld be a problem , like to know about this plastic welding, must be hard strike and arc
I can think of ideas with pins etc but think it would be just as easy with the current threading method.
The only real quick option would be adhesive, but it just don't like it, was hoping you guys would know of a better grade of Loctite as we can get this product over here in NZ.
Of all the things I've lost it's my mind I miss the most
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
Locktite has a shelf life
was it too old ??
was everything cleaned right
was it too old ??
was everything cleaned right
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
If your outer tube had a lip, and the rear end cap had a shelf for it, you could machine matching waves into the surfaces in order to "lock" the two together once the baffle stack and front end cap were inserted. This would prevent your rear end cap from spinning.Enfield577 wrote:The other thing is that the end cap also needs to be secure from rotation as it will have force applied when screwing and unscrewing from the gun.
Though, that methodology would probably require a CNC (not sure if you have access to one or not). Should you be limited to a manual mill, you could simply use a locating notch or two. This way you can use the rear end cap push out the baffle stack, yet it still won't spin or come off.
- twodollarbill
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Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
I'm sure my 22lr suppressor would be totally caked solid by 5000 rounds.Enfield577 wrote: however I believe that most never clean them .
Shot 1000 rounds of CCI mimi-mags this weekend and the between the muzzle and
my blast baffle was caked. With quite a lot of debris in the K baffles.
I would not recommend shooting over 2000 rounds without disassembling.
Someone had posted pics of what an uncleaned 22lr suppressor a while back.....
- Bendersquint
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Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
I have posted tons of dirty baffle pics. We extract more solid 22lr cores than ones where the baffles come out freely.twodollarbill wrote:I'm sure my 22lr suppressor would be totally caked solid by 5000 rounds.Enfield577 wrote: however I believe that most never clean them .
Shot 1000 rounds of CCI mimi-mags this weekend and the between the muzzle and
my blast baffle was caked. With quite a lot of debris in the K baffles.
I would not recommend shooting over 2000 rounds without disassembling.
Someone had posted pics of what an uncleaned 22lr suppressor a while back.....
K baffles and 22lr are a good sound combination but not a good cleaning combination.
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
Plastic welding is easy I have a welding tool for that uses a heating element and compressed air.
Welding can and usually does pull things out of alignment. were talking end cap tho weld it on its just an exit hole wait and drill it after the welding is done on threaded end thread after also. No matter without a welder it aint happening LOL What Lava said makes the most sense for it heating up the tube and installing the end cap on a heat expanded tube could work once it contracts it should be nice and Tight.
Joe
Welding can and usually does pull things out of alignment. were talking end cap tho weld it on its just an exit hole wait and drill it after the welding is done on threaded end thread after also. No matter without a welder it aint happening LOL What Lava said makes the most sense for it heating up the tube and installing the end cap on a heat expanded tube could work once it contracts it should be nice and Tight.
Joe
It's truely amazing what the mind can conceive and prompt the hands to create <---Mine..
Semper Fi
Semper Fi
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
A note on adhesives, epoxy made for laminates are much stronger and cheaper than loctite.
I have built a couple of windsurf boards, and epoxy with glass or carbon cloth is very strong, but its sticky, allergenic and time-consuming to work with.
You could wrap the entire suppressor and endcap with a layer and go for the carbon look.
One of the best building company is located in NZ
http://carbonartwindsurf.com
I have built a couple of windsurf boards, and epoxy with glass or carbon cloth is very strong, but its sticky, allergenic and time-consuming to work with.
You could wrap the entire suppressor and endcap with a layer and go for the carbon look.
One of the best building company is located in NZ
http://carbonartwindsurf.com
- daviscustom
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Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
Instead of adhesives, you could make the endcap a press fit as has been suggested, but cut a groove in OD of the part that presses in so you can use a pipe cutter with a rounded (not sharp) blade to roll a crimp in the tube (lined up with the groove) and lock it in place. I don't have pics, but I've seen someone post pics on the forum before.....looked like a quick and easy way to lock parts in the tube....could also be used to lock baffles in place without spacer tubes.
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- Enfield577
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Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
All good ideas thanks Gents
I will do a few experiments
I will do a few experiments
Of all the things I've lost it's my mind I miss the most
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
You can always buy or make a special tap for threading the tube on the lathe, it speeds up the process a lot. With a floating holder for the tap its fast and easy.
- Enfield577
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Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
Yes I thought of that as I just made a tap for my Walther P22 barrel (8mm x 0.75) I made an alternative barrel nut that had an extended front part with thread for suppressor10mmmag wrote:You can always buy or make a special tap for threading the tube on the lathe, it speeds up the process a lot. With a floating holder for the tap its fast and easy.
Cheers
Of all the things I've lost it's my mind I miss the most
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
Interference fit and liquid nitrogen. Make the end cap .0015 bigger then the tube. Place the end cap in the Liquid nitrogen for 10 minutes. Quickly assemble with a hydraulic press.
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- Enfield577
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Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
Well I got the press but right out of nitrogen (well liquid nitrogen that is )Rrdstarr wrote:Interference fit and liquid nitrogen. Make the end cap .0015 bigger then the tube. Place the end cap in the Liquid nitrogen for 10 minutes. Quickly assemble with a hydraulic press.
Of all the things I've lost it's my mind I miss the most
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
You can probably rent a cylinder for a week if you need too!Enfield577 wrote:Well I got the press but right out of nitrogen (well liquid nitrogen that is )Rrdstarr wrote:Interference fit and liquid nitrogen. Make the end cap .0015 bigger then the tube. Place the end cap in the Liquid nitrogen for 10 minutes. Quickly assemble with a hydraulic press.
No longer residing in the US of A.
Retired US Army Special Forces
Retired US Army Special Forces
Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
How about an interference fit + pins? The two combined should work OK.
- Bendersquint
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Re: Thoughts on adhesive for 22 suppresors
I wouldn't trust a Form1 can with those features.Baffled wrote:How about an interference fit + pins? The two combined should work OK.
I would venture a try with my SOT but thats pretty risky.
.02