SilencerTalk

Sound Suppressor Discussion
It is currently Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:14 am

All times are UTC-04:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:28 pm 
Offline
Elite Member

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:37 am
Posts: 61
Seeing as how one is not able to obtain a "true" pistol grip on an AFG, does anyone know whether or not the installation of an AFG on an AR pistol would be a violation of the NFA?


Top
   
BulletFlight for Android
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:35 pm 
Offline
Silent But Deadly

Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:35 pm
Posts: 3173
Location: Simpsonville, S.C.
aml wrote:
Seeing as how one is not able to obtain a "true" pistol grip on an AFG, does anyone know whether or not the installation of an AFG on an AR pistol would be a violation of the NFA?


I'd be willing to bet yes. Any kind of grip is probably viewed as such.

Finger stops, no idea.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:57 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:34 pm
Posts: 7693
Location: AZ
I'm for sure not doing it. And I think the only way to get a ruling on is to contact the government. But contacting a non-legislative government agency allows them to just make up a new law. I mean it doesn't really, but it does today.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:00 am 
Offline
Silencertalk Goon Squad
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 2:22 am
Posts: 17511
Location: London, England
You should write a letter........

_________________
NFAtalk.org


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:59 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:01 pm
Posts: 394
ArevaloSOCOM wrote:
You should write a letter........


My last letter to ATF asking for clarification on a subject took 12 months to answer and about 2 months after I wrote the letter the local ATF office called me to conduct an inspection on my FFL (03). Wonder if it was related?

Isn't the advantage of the AFG to pull back on the weapon, driving it into your shoulder for quicker follow on shots? For a weapon that isn't shoulder fired (pistol AR) what's the point of even using it?


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:34 pm 
Offline
Elite Member

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:37 am
Posts: 61
Cuz its cool 8)


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:19 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:38 pm
Posts: 239
Quote:
Isn't the advantage of the AFG to pull back on the weapon, driving it into your shoulder for quicker follow on shots? For a weapon that isn't shoulder fired (pistol AR) what's the point of even using it?


Consistant natural support hand indexing and acts as a safety stop keeping you from getting the Jesus hand. At least that'd be my reason although i don't particularly care for anything on an AR pistol.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:16 am 
Offline
Elite Member

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:37 am
Posts: 61
I searched thru the Internet looking for an answer, and found a similar thread at another forum. I read thru the NFA handbook looking for a specific definition of a vertical foregrip, which would make this firearm an AOW. Over 200 pages, but not a single definition. I don't want to call undue attention to the topic by writing a letter to some pencil neck in WV and then wait for a canned response, so I am using a back channel.....will post any response or info I receive.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:33 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:47 am
Posts: 3864
Location: Chattanooga, TN
You mean you don't dual wield your AR pistols? :?

_________________
Psalm 144:1
Morior Invictus
http://www.flickr.com/photos/st33ve0/


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:43 pm 
Offline
Elite Member

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:37 am
Posts: 61
LOL Akimbo style all the way...Got a reply from my back channel. Said from the enforcement side, the use of this on a pistol would more than likely be treading in AOW territory. Damn. It could have been so cool. Oh well. Maybe I will just have to buy another rifle to put it on......I suppose every cloud does have a silver lining after all :wink:


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:06 pm 
Offline
Silent But Deadly

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:27 pm
Posts: 391
Location: Snowy Colorado
I saw on another board that Magpul has contacted the ATF and asked. I have not seen any responce posted back on their reply.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:58 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:42 am
Posts: 756
I forget if it was Chris or Travis who posted in ARFCOM Magpul forum that they have contacted the ATF about it and trying to determine what they say.. Hope it goes in our favor, but not holding my breath over it.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:22 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:34 pm
Posts: 7693
Location: AZ
I really cannot see any government agency turning down any opportunity to gain leverage over people. If it isn't considered a vertical grip... I will... well I don't know. Maybe be a little bit less cynical about our government.

Within a week of it not being considered a vertical grip, I'll look a cop in the eyes and say, "Hello."


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:14 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:08 pm
Posts: 1550
I've seen letters talking about a "Vertical front grip" ..... but they never address a horizontal grip. I wonder what they would say to a grip mounted sideways off a 4-rail free float forearm (like a Sten magazine)

No - I don't really wonder .... I'm pretty sure I know what they would say :roll:

_________________
As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such a twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air -- however slight -- lest we become unwilling victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:35 pm 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:34 pm
Posts: 7693
Location: AZ
In Connecticut AWB, it says "A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon". Some have taken that to mean that a forward grip doesn't even count. I mean, that's what it says and what they meant, but who knows what they'll stretch it to to unjustly imprison an innocent person? They can just tear a massive lie out of their ass and say "conspicuously beneath the action" actually means "to the side of the barrel". Or they'll hold the gun pointing down and say LOOK IT'S BENEATH THE ACTION!

I'm pretty sure if they like your gun, it's theirs. I'm going to score a pre-ban lower so I don't have to worry as much with my AR. I already scored a preban 10/22 out in indiana.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:15 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:22 pm
Posts: 2235
st33ve0 wrote:
You mean you don't dual wield your AR pistols? :?


Classic :)


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:22 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:42 am
Posts: 756
Wonder what they think of a finger stop then.. ie KAC's finger stop.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:34 pm 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:00 pm
Posts: 751
Location: Picton, NZ
The fore grip of the SP-89 has a finger stop. KAC's shouldn't be a problem.

_________________
continuity-TROOPER, 2016


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:03 pm 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:19 am
Posts: 4545
Location: Texas
(29) The term ``handgun'' means--
(A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held
and fired by the use of a single hand
; and
(B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in
subparagraph (A) can be assembled.


Adding a second grip makes it designed to be fired with two hands, and thus no longer a handgun.

I think ATF has been very generous in that regard, but there is only so far they will go.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:38 pm 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:23 pm
Posts: 955
Location: WI
renegade wrote:
(29) The term ``handgun'' means--
(A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held
and fired by the use of a single hand
; and
(B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in
subparagraph (A) can be assembled.


Adding a second grip makes it designed to be fired with two hands, and thus no longer a handgun.

I think ATF has been very generous in that regard, but there is only so far they will go.


By that definition when I use two hands when I shoot I'm breaking the law even if I don't have a forward handgrip.

CSF

_________________
I MAY DIE IN A DITCH, BUT I WILL BE LYING IN A BED OF BRASS!


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:51 pm 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:19 am
Posts: 4545
Location: Texas
csfirearms wrote:
renegade wrote:
(29) The term ``handgun'' means--
(A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held
and fired by the use of a single hand
; and
(B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in
subparagraph (A) can be assembled.


Adding a second grip makes it designed to be fired with two hands, and thus no longer a handgun.

I think ATF has been very generous in that regard, but there is only so far they will go.


By that definition when I use two hands when I shoot I'm breaking the law even if I don't have a forward handgrip.

CSF


What handgun are you using that is DESIGNED for your other hand? All the handguns I have are DESIGNED for one hand only. The fact you can use two hands does not mean it was DESIGNED for it.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:12 pm 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 781
ArevaloSOCOM wrote:
You should write a letter........


Epic fail.

He should fill out a Form 1 and put a stock on that short-barrelled rifle-caliber firearm. :twisted:


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:20 am 
Offline
Silent But Deadly
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:14 pm
Posts: 1136
VanKamp wrote:
Quote:
Isn't the advantage of the AFG to pull back on the weapon, driving it into your shoulder for quicker follow on shots? For a weapon that isn't shoulder fired (pistol AR) what's the point of even using it?


Consistant natural support hand indexing and acts as a safety stop keeping you from getting the Jesus hand. At least that'd be my reason although i don't particularly care for anything on an AR pistol.



Forward Carry Handle? :D

_________________
Stick

I've done work photography work with 45 or so manufacturers within the firearm community, my images have been used for catalogs, magazines, covers, etc. I have also shot work for the US Military. I am prior service and a full time LEO.

I now also shoot and write for Military Times. My primary focus will stay with weapons, accessories and related equipment reviews. Manufacturers can reach me through any of the boards. Have something new? Let me know.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stickgunner


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:52 pm 
Offline
Senior Silent Operator

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:05 am
Posts: 146
Location: Miami Fl
Nice stick
good one 8)


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:29 am 
Offline
Elite Member

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:37 am
Posts: 61
eric10mm wrote:
ArevaloSOCOM wrote:
You should write a letter........


Epic fail.

He should fill out a Form 1 and put a stock on that short-barrelled rifle-caliber firearm. :twisted:


Would love to. Live in Kali. The fact that I work for an agency that is willing to provide letterhead for "assault weapons" is more than I can ask for. No way of getting anything else...


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

All times are UTC-04:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off | Load: 0.59 ]