Seeing as how one is not able to obtain a "true" pistol grip on an AFG, does anyone know whether or not the installation of an AFG on an AR pistol would be a violation of the NFA?

aml wrote:Seeing as how one is not able to obtain a "true" pistol grip on an AFG, does anyone know whether or not the installation of an AFG on an AR pistol would be a violation of the NFA?

I'd be willing to bet yes. Any kind of grip is probably viewed as such.

Finger stops, no idea.

I'm for sure not doing it. And I think the only way to get a ruling on is to contact the government. But contacting a non-legislative government agency allows them to just make up a new law. I mean it doesn't really, but it does today.

You should write a letter........

ArevaloSOCOM wrote:You should write a letter........

My last letter to ATF asking for clarification on a subject took 12 months to answer and about 2 months after I wrote the letter the local ATF office called me to conduct an inspection on my FFL (03). Wonder if it was related?

Isn't the advantage of the AFG to pull back on the weapon, driving it into your shoulder for quicker follow on shots? For a weapon that isn't shoulder fired (pistol AR) what's the point of even using it?

Cuz its cool

Isn't the advantage of the AFG to pull back on the weapon, driving it into your shoulder for quicker follow on shots? For a weapon that isn't shoulder fired (pistol AR) what's the point of even using it?

Consistant natural support hand indexing and acts as a safety stop keeping you from getting the Jesus hand. At least that'd be my reason although i don't particularly care for anything on an AR pistol.

I searched thru the Internet looking for an answer, and found a similar thread at another forum. I read thru the NFA handbook looking for a specific definition of a vertical foregrip, which would make this firearm an AOW. Over 200 pages, but not a single definition. I don't want to call undue attention to the topic by writing a letter to some pencil neck in WV and then wait for a canned response, so I am using a back channel.....will post any response or info I receive.

You mean you don't dual wield your AR pistols?

LOL Akimbo style all the way...Got a reply from my back channel. Said from the enforcement side, the use of this on a pistol would more than likely be treading in AOW territory. Damn. It could have been so cool. Oh well. Maybe I will just have to buy another rifle to put it on......I suppose every cloud does have a silver lining after all

I saw on another board that Magpul has contacted the ATF and asked. I have not seen any responce posted back on their reply.

I forget if it was Chris or Travis who posted in ARFCOM Magpul forum that they have contacted the ATF about it and trying to determine what they say.. Hope it goes in our favor, but not holding my breath over it.

I really cannot see any government agency turning down any opportunity to gain leverage over people. If it isn't considered a vertical grip... I will... well I don't know. Maybe be a little bit less cynical about our government.

Within a week of it not being considered a vertical grip, I'll look a cop in the eyes and say, "Hello."

I've seen letters talking about a "Vertical front grip" ..... but they never address a horizontal grip. I wonder what they would say to a grip mounted sideways off a 4-rail free float forearm (like a Sten magazine)

No - I don't really wonder .... I'm pretty sure I know what they would say

In Connecticut AWB, it says "A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon". Some have taken that to mean that a forward grip doesn't even count. I mean, that's what it says and what they meant, but who knows what they'll stretch it to to unjustly imprison an innocent person? They can just tear a massive lie out of their ass and say "conspicuously beneath the action" actually means "to the side of the barrel". Or they'll hold the gun pointing down and say LOOK IT'S BENEATH THE ACTION!

I'm pretty sure if they like your gun, it's theirs. I'm going to score a pre-ban lower so I don't have to worry as much with my AR. I already scored a preban 10/22 out in indiana.

st33ve0 wrote:You mean you don't dual wield your AR pistols?

Classic

Wonder what they think of a finger stop then.. ie KAC's finger stop.

The fore grip of the SP-89 has a finger stop. KAC's shouldn't be a problem.

(29) The term ``handgun'' means--
(A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held
and fired by the use of a single hand; and
(B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in
subparagraph (A) can be assembled.

Adding a second grip makes it designed to be fired with two hands, and thus no longer a handgun.

I think ATF has been very generous in that regard, but there is only so far they will go.

renegade wrote: (29) The term ``handgun'' means--
(A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held
and fired by the use of a single hand; and
(B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in
subparagraph (A) can be assembled.

Adding a second grip makes it designed to be fired with two hands, and thus no longer a handgun.

I think ATF has been very generous in that regard, but there is only so far they will go.

By that definition when I use two hands when I shoot I'm breaking the law even if I don't have a forward handgrip.

CSF

csfirearms wrote:

renegade wrote: (29) The term ``handgun'' means--
(A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held
and fired by the use of a single hand; and
(B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in
subparagraph (A) can be assembled.

Adding a second grip makes it designed to be fired with two hands, and thus no longer a handgun.

I think ATF has been very generous in that regard, but there is only so far they will go.

By that definition when I use two hands when I shoot I'm breaking the law even if I don't have a forward handgrip.

CSF

What handgun are you using that is DESIGNED for your other hand? All the handguns I have are DESIGNED for one hand only. The fact you can use two hands does not mean it was DESIGNED for it.

ArevaloSOCOM wrote:You should write a letter........

Epic fail.

He should fill out a Form 1 and put a stock on that short-barrelled rifle-caliber firearm.

VanKamp wrote:

Isn't the advantage of the AFG to pull back on the weapon, driving it into your shoulder for quicker follow on shots? For a weapon that isn't shoulder fired (pistol AR) what's the point of even using it?

Consistant natural support hand indexing and acts as a safety stop keeping you from getting the Jesus hand. At least that'd be my reason although i don't particularly care for anything on an AR pistol.

Forward Carry Handle?

Nice stick
good one

eric10mm wrote:

ArevaloSOCOM wrote:You should write a letter........

Epic fail.

He should fill out a Form 1 and put a stock on that short-barrelled rifle-caliber firearm.

Would love to. Live in Kali. The fact that I work for an agency that is willing to provide letterhead for "assault weapons" is more than I can ask for. No way of getting anything else...