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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:43 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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After reviewing the gemtech section of silencertalk, I've noted many of the same type of quality control issues. It started me thinking about my first two suppressors and first experiences with Gemtech's legendary quality and customer service.

In my view now there is not a single Gem-tech product that is not made better than someone else with the sole exception of the Mk9k. Its interesting that Gem-tech had to modify their description of the G5 from "fully welded" to that there was some welding when some enterprising manufacturer cut open the can and checked to see if the baffle stack was truly fully welded and it was not. Then Dr. Dater came on the subguns.com board and others and launched into a explanation on how fully welding is a bad idea. If it was a bad idea, why did they lie that they had done it when they didn't? Usually lies are for your benefit not against your interests. Now the G5 description doesn't mention welding at all, but the HALO suppressor description touts fully welding as being important to strength.

It is interesting to note that Gem-tech removed their sound levels from their website complaining of other manufacturers copying their sound levels at the same time their products began testing below other manufacturers products in independent tests. This said they still make outlandish claims about sound reduction versus other suppressors. For example they state with regard to the 9mm Tundra suppressor they manufacture, that "With a totally redesigned baffle stack incorporating patented features, the TUNDRA has been independently tested and proven to be the most efficient design available in a dry, dedicated 9mm pistol suppressor." This statement is an absolute bold faced lie. It cannot be supported by testing at all and has been disproved a number of times. When given the opportunity to come to the silencer shoot hosted by Tier 1 Group Memphis they decline to attend while other manufacturers eagerly attend to display their wares and engage in side by side comparisons.

See below my personal experience with Gem-tech's amazing quality and customer service. Below is my personal experience with two of Gem-tech's quality suppressors and their customer service:

http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsgarch ... ead=741399

Basically I ordered a new Gem-Tech Oasis in 2006. When it arrived at my dealer, the Oasis arrived without a front end cap. WTF? I mean seriously the quality control wasn't good enough to catch that the end cap wasn't attached. The dealer caught the problem when he took the Oasis out of the tube after my transfer was approved and had to call me to tell me that the GD suppressor had a problem and may have to be sent back. At the time I considered voiding the transfer, but Gem-Tech assured my dealer there was no problem and sent an endcap and instructed him in how to install it. This lack of quality control and their refusal to return and send a new suppressor and general concern about lack of quality control resulted in the dealer dropping his stocking dealership with Gemtech.

I got the suppressor and took it out shooting and had a baffle strike within the first 5rds. I realized that it was a problem when it got louder and then i saw a chunk go flying and it turns out it was the end cap which I was not able to locate.

I immediately contacted GT and they sent a shipping label and after fighting with fedex they agreed to allow me to ship it directly back to them. Approximately 6 months later I got the suppressor back. I should note that I expected a replacement as the threads on the end of the aluminum upper were partially torn off and I didn't think it could be fixed as a result of the damage to the threads. I was told by numerous people about GT's legendary customer service so I wasn't surprised when I received a suppressor and from looking at it, I assumed it had been replaced. At the time GT's website gave the impression that the Oasis was wholy made by Gemtech, however I was told that they had consulted with Tactical Solutions who made the upper and both they and Gem-Tech had agreed that it was an ammo issue, but that they would cover the repair and subrogate by discussing the issue with the ammo manufacturer. I was very thankful for the repair although I was absolutely LIVID when I learned Tactical Solutions had manufactured the upper and Gem-Tech had just jammed some baffles in it, engraved their info and mailed it to my dealer, and had not actually built the Oasis upper from the ground up as they indicated on their website.

After 6 months I got the suppressor back, and had to leave the country for a while, not having had the chance to shoot it once I got it back, but excited because the upper that came in looked brand new so I was under the impression it had been replaced. The customer service rep encouraged me to use quality ammo in the future and that I should be good to go. When I returned to the U.S. I purchased 500rds of rather expensive 22lr match target ammo from a major manufacturer. Three rounds into my day of shooting I suffered another end cap strike which blew off the end cap again. As you can imagine the GD threads are really messed up at this point and are barely visible. I called Gem-Tech up and discussed the issue with customer service who again sent a shipping label. After about 8 months of emails back and forth Gem-Tech acknowledged all they did the first time was replace the end cap and refinish the external finish on the tube. The second time they determined that Tactical Solutions had misdrilled the hole the steel barrel liner goes into and it was canted. To correct the problem, they had to redrill the barrel hole and place some filler in it to even out the barrel and install a new barrel liner. They then tried to fix the end cap threads in the aluminum upper a second time. As you can guess the threads almost go all of the way through the upper just to have enough aluminum threads for the end cap to catch on some threads so the end of the tube is very weak.

I asked for a refund and offered to allow Gem-Tech to keep the gun. Gem-Tech declined that option.

So 14 months into this suppressor I finally get it back. It jams consistently. I never shoot the gun as it is NOT quiet. Regardless of the ammo and mags used the same problems continue to occur. The cycling of the bolt is no where as smooth as it is in a standard ruger upper as I am not really certain the upper is completely in spec. Reliability upgrades including Volquartsen firing pin and exact edge extractor that are usually golden in most Ruger pistols have not improved reliability much. The chamber is too tight as well which still results in failures to feed completely and failures to eject from the chamber, let alone fully eject.

During this same time I also had my only other suppressor at the time my almost brand new GT Blackside out to the range. The rear endcap unscrewed off my HK USP Tactical 45 leaving only the endcap attached to the barrel. This to damaged the threads and resulted in it having to go back to gemtech to have the endcap tightened and loctite installed on the damaged threads.

While my friends and family all raved about Gem-Tech, I have to say that this experience permanently burned me on them. As a consolation prise they offered to sell me any suppressor they made at cost as a way to make up for the bad experience. I let my dealer use the discount to purchase a Halo suppressor. Imagine my surprise when a month after the Form 3 transfer was approved for the discounted HALO to my dealer Gemtech had the gemtax sale and sold the Halo for $50 less than "cost". Liars.

The irony of the whole thing is I moved and hadn't seen my dealer for quite a few years. I saw him about a month ago at a local show and he shouted to me when I was several tables away "hey that's that guy with that GD Gemtech Oasis f*ckup. Come tell this guy I wasn't lying!" It turns out he'd been telling him about my misfortune that very moment.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:57 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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Their customer service worked out for me in the end, but not after I had spent quite a bit of money and time proving a problem with their product. Right now, I just don't feel like they make anything that I couldn't get elsewhere, for less money, and better product. If that changes in the future, I may reconsider them. Currently, I'm ok with the Gemtech cans I have, but won't be purchasing any of their current lineup.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:29 pm 
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I've had nothing but fantastic luck with my Gemtech cans.

The only place I read about the so-called "issues" is this site, which of course is affiliated with AAC.

Edit - Nothing against AAC cans or the company itself; I'm still waiting for the paperwork to clear so that Major Malfunction can start the transfer process to my dealer on my 762-SDN-6 cans. However, the constant bad-mouthing/berating of Gemtech cans (particularly on this site) means they must be pretty damn good, otherwise Gemtech's competitors wouldn't have to go to such lengths to talk badly about the competition.

I really wish manufacturers would just tell me the positive features of their products rather than spend so much time/effort bad-mouthing others'.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:09 pm 
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I have never seen anyone affiliated with AAC bad mouth Gemtech on this site since ive been here. Not saying it hasnt happened because I dont read every thread but i am saying it hasnt happened very often at all because I do read most. Most who are bad mouthing Gemtech are just normal consumers not affiliated with either company.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:43 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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agent-smith wrote:
I've had nothing but fantastic luck with my Gemtech cans.


Same here and I use them all of the time. They even did a great job of threading my Remmy 700 for my Sandstorm.

I am really surprized that Gemtech is making the Oasis or I guess partially making the Oasis. Although the intergral setups are really quiet, most companies are moving away from them because they are such a pita to make and service.

Between Gemtech and Tactical Solutions they should be able to make the thing work properly, if not there is a serious issue for one of them.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:23 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Right now, I only own Gemtech cans. That used to be all that my dealer carried.

Not sure what my next can will be - those user serviceable monocore .22 cans are looking interesting.
But Gemtech is seeing the light and affers the user-serviceable Alpine .22 can... Hmmmm.........

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:41 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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I'm more than happy to post a copy of my FFL/SOT, for those who may doubt to show both that I am a dealer in Alabama and that I am not an employee of the Freedom Group or AAC. That said, I posted about the issues with my cans here only after having previously posted about it on subguns.com. I re-posted here because I noted several similar complaints to the ones I'd experienced while perusing the Gemtech section of this forum. All of this said if you search several years back in this forum you'll see that I fought hard for Gemtech on the issue of the tonal quality of the Blackside and still believe the MK9K is an excellent suppressor. I do not think that posting the emails from Gemtech regarding this issues is necessary, although I have retained them.

At this time I stock Coastal, Silencerco and will stock AWC and AAC products, although I don't have any AAC products in stock as yet.

Also Oasis's are not true integrals in that they do not have ported barrels from what I understand.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:45 pm 
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My first can was a Outback 2. In anticipation of approval, I acquired three firearms with threaded barrels (bolt rifle, TacSol upper MK3 and a Walther p22).

I had minor end cap strikes with all three (bullet would "rub" on the same edge of the end cap). Obviously accuracy sucked.

Given that it happened (and on the same edge) with all three, the OBVIOUS issue was the silencer/threads being out of alignment.

Well, what's obvious to all of us wasn't obvious to Gemtech. Without even looking at it, they told me my barrels were all threaded wrong!!!

When I finally convinced them to look at it they admitted that the threaded insert (which they buy from another company and glue in place) was out of spec. No s--t Gemtech :roll:

At that point, they fixed it free of charge minus my hassle.

Gemtech is now on my short list of companies like Botach Tactical.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:38 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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yamatitan wrote:
I have never seen anyone affiliated with AAC bad mouth Gemtech on this site since ive been here. Not saying it hasnt happened because I dont read every thread but i am saying it hasnt happened very often at all because I do read most. Most who are bad mouthing Gemtech are just normal consumers not affiliated with either company.



Well,,,,it is not entirely true that it never happened. Kevin B. once had some posts about what happened back in the day between him and Dater. And some fun poked at the G5 ,Blackside and the strong similarities of the Evo 9 and Mutimount.

If you really want to waste heartbeats, you will find them. Not that it really matters

Personally speaking, I have had great luck with them. But as with all companies, sometimes bad things happens.

I have a major drama with AWC and their "represenative" that I will not go into here.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:10 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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I have 4 gemtech Cans, and never had any problems with them.

I aquired a TALON upper a while back, and had the BBL nut come loose. I returned it to GT and they fixed it free. So far it's holding tight. Problem fixed.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:34 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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DustyJacket wrote:
Right now, I only own Gemtech cans. That used to be all that my dealer carried.

Not sure what my next can will be - those user serviceable monocore .22 cans are looking interesting.
But Gemtech is seeing the light and affers the user-serviceable Alpine .22 can... Hmmmm.........

Well, since that post, I have encountered some issues/discoveries with my MultiMount.

My next can (a .22 thread on or integral) will NOT be GemTech.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:54 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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How's Gemtech doing these days? I found two Multimounts for $299 each and so I'll be in them $350 including lids I found on sale. I'm tempted.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:18 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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jurist wrote:
...
It is interesting to note that Gem-tech removed their sound levels from their website complaining of other manufacturers copying their sound levels at the same time their products began testing below other manufacturers products in independent tests. ...


I can not speak to the rest of what you said, but this part right here makes me doubt it. As I bought my first can a Halo in 2007, at that time they had already stopped putting the sound levels reduction, I do not know when they started doing so. So when you imply that they are just doing it now at least four years later, that makes me wounder what else are you not being fully on the level with. I have never had issues with my Halo, and like I said it was the first one I bought. I bought it because it was what was in stock. After that I have bought a YHM Cobra, and a SWR Warlock. I have no brand loyalty as I only buy what is in stock at the store, so I have no skin in the game.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:54 am 
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I can't say I've had a good experience with Gemtech.

I sent my can in for a repair and they crushed the tube. They gave me the option of a refund or send me a new can (I would have to get back in the ATF line)... I chose the refund.

Two months later, I am still waiting on the refund. I'm pretty disappointed in Gemtech. I'm without the can and without the refund.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:10 am 
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Still haven't received my refund.

I would not do business with Gemtech again. Terrible company, and terrible employees.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:14 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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POChunter wrote:
Still haven't received my refund.

I would not do business with Gemtech again. Terrible company, and terrible employees.

It sounds like you might need to get a lawyer to call them. I had to get one involved in a dispute with Todd Bailey/Coharie to get him to return a pos Mp5 sd he not only fucked up building but out of spite fucked up the can before returning it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:46 pm 
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I've had good luck with GemTech over the years and I guess I've always liked the fact that Doc Dater was there. The rep I use, even today when the corporate directory tries to steer you over to a kid who works for Smith and Wesson, has been there a long time and has helped me with every purchase and problem I've ever had. I had a GM-45 as part of the Trilogy set I bought blow off the end of the barrel of my Sig P220 with a factory threaded barrel. The forces involved in the destruction of the suppressor somehow went back into the gun and cracked my feed ramp!?? The gun was practically brand new and the GM-45 was not over two years old and had not been shot much. I mostly bought the Trilogy because I got a good deal on it and wanted to test the "One" for police and State Trooper sales.
GemTech was nice at first and sent me a free 2-day label. After it arrived one of the engineers, not my rep, called and asked me if I had been involved in rapid fire destructive testing of the can. It was kind of a stupid question by him because at those types of temperatures the coating of any can will be changed in certain areas, even high temp Cerakote type C. I told the guy that I had not been, but having seen GemTech videos claiming the GM-45 was full auto rated I asked him even if I had been shooting lots and fast so what? The thing supposedly had a lifetime warranty. I got another call a day or three later from another "engineer" asking me the same question about doing destructive testing and I again said that I was not but even if I was "so what"... full auto rated and lifetime warranty?? I also mentioned to expert #2 that the failure of the can was in the back portion by the barrel and not the middle or end where you typically see baffle strikes like the ones I had just after their blast baffle area.. or what passes for a blast baffle. They replaced the unit with a brand new one and sent it back free of charge but it seemed like they were grumbley about the whole thing. I really hate when gun or accessory or suppressor manufactures sell you on their "Lifetime, no fault warranty" then grill the F--k out of you when your unit fails. I probably had not had 200 rounds through the GM-45 because, quite frankly, mine sucked and was really loud as compared to my Octane, Tirant and later the Tirant M cans all in .45
So about a month later I'm on the Gemtech site looking, and still looking to this day, for quick lock adapters for the AK-47 types and my HK-91 and PTR-91R and I notice that there is a NEW PISTON offered exclusively for the Sig P220!! Called my rep and asked WTF and is this why my can exploded. He admitted it was a discovered problem when they looked at my can and took measurements on a Sig P220 and decided that the regular piston was too long for the LID unit and that they had to make a SHORTER one for use with the Sig P220. They neglected to tell me this and my unit was returned with a regular length piston! I asked my rep to send me one for free and he did and also gave me $$ off another can that a police officer wanted because of the broken factory Sig threaded barrel.... they are not cheap.
My GM-45 is very loud dry, I think louder than the first one I had, and the only way to make it even close to acceptable and not hurt my ears without ear pro is to shoot it wet with RemOil (lasts about two 8 round mags) or use wire pulling gel or Seal One foam (both last for about 30 round before the pain starts again. I've read rave reviews from GM-45 owners who are astonished at how quiet their dry can is and one guy even referred to his as true "Hollywood Quiet".
Now that this thread has jogged my memory I'm going to call my rep at GemTech and see if I can return my GM-45 for analysis and testing. Might have bought a Lunar but think I'm going with the Dead Air Ghost M next...

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