KelTec RFB.. If you have one...

[Libertarian_Geek]

For those of you that may have purchased a Kel-Tec RFB... Do you still like it? Is there anything that you don't like about it now that you've had it for a while?

[dtom29]

Still like it VERY much. The only thing I want from Keltec is a sling mount point on one of the pins. I think the rifle could benefit from fold down back up sights that recess into the rail like the Sig 556 popsicle sight. Since they are BUIS they only need to be rudimentary.
I am trying to keep my gun purchases at zero for 2012....well except for the pair of Model 12 S&W revolvers, I didn't get past the 3rd after seeing them....and I'll get the KSG when they are out.....Anyway what I'm trying to say is I'll be getting another RFB, I like it that much.

[Surly]

No complaints here. I love it even more with my suppressor attached, as does the wife.

[Libertarian_Geek]

Since my original post, I've picked up an RFB. I made my own kydex cheek rest (due to the heat).

I'm thinking about picking up one of these longer rails:
http://www.kmaerospace.com/RFB-Rails.html

[dtom29]

I also saw this..
http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=830.0
I think the offering you linked might be better because I'm not a fan of the barrel Quad rail.

[imyomama]

I wanted one from the day I saw it .. unfortunately, it seems like kel tec has a pattern of launching products with appeal , then limiting production to the point that only the few that make it to the shelves go for an obscene amount of money .
RFB .. wanted one , probably not gonna happen
KSG .. wanted one , probably not gonna happen
pmr-30 wanted one , probably not gonna happen
su-16 in 300 BLK want one , probably not gonna happen either.

I even joined the kel tec forum at one point to see what the story was straight form kel tec....
gave up on that too...

I do have a kydex cheek rest for the RFB .. I bought it when I was looking for an RFB .
I gave up when people started bidding $700 over retail , and half of the ones that were produced seemed to have gone back to kel tec for repair,based on the reviews on their forum.


pm me if you have and RFB and want a kydex cheek rest.

[dtom29]

This is mine, I picked up a God-A-grip pad to put on it instead of the kydex. I don't want to raise my head any higher than it is now. The pad isn't on it in this photo.

[Surly]

I wanted one from the day I saw it .. unfortunately, it seems like kel tec has a pattern of launching products with appeal , then limiting production to the point that only the few that make it to the shelves go for an obscene amount of money .
RFB .. wanted one , probably not gonna happen
KSG .. wanted one , probably not gonna happen
pmr-30 wanted one , probably not gonna happen
su-16 in 300 BLK want one , probably not gonna happen either.

I even joined the kel tec forum at one point to see what the story was straight form kel tec....
gave up on that too...

I do have a kydex cheek rest for the RFB .. I bought it when I was looking for an RFB .
I gave up when people started bidding $700 over retail , and half of the ones that were produced seemed to have gone back to kel tec for repair,based on the reviews on their forum.


pm me if you have and RFB and want a kydex cheek rest.

I wanted an RFB and KSG and I made it happen. You can too, if you spend some cash and stop concerning yourself with MSRP and dealer pricing. Either won't be there any time soon.

[imyomama]

I wanted one from the day I saw it .. unfortunately, it seems like kel tec has a pattern of launching products with appeal , then limiting production to the point that only the few that make it to the shelves go for an obscene amount of money .
RFB .. wanted one , probably not gonna happen
KSG .. wanted one , probably not gonna happen
pmr-30 wanted one , probably not gonna happen
su-16 in 300 BLK want one , probably not gonna happen either.

I even joined the kel tec forum at one point to see what the story was straight form kel tec....
gave up on that too...

I do have a kydex cheek rest for the RFB .. I bought it when I was looking for an RFB .
I gave up when people started bidding $700 over retail , and half of the ones that were produced seemed to have gone back to kel tec for repair,based on the reviews on their forum.


pm me if you have and RFB and want a kydex cheek rest.

I wanted an RFB and KSG and I made it happen. You can too, if you spend some cash and stop concerning yourself with MSRP and dealer pricing. Either won't be there any time soon.

I'm sorry , but that's just not gonna happen! the RFB may look cool , but it's not "that" cool !


when the price goes down and the bugs are worked out maybe , but until then , no way .
I know some people bought one for $2k just so someone at the gun range can go "what the $%#@ is that?" , but i'm just not that guy.

if I'm gonna spend my hard earned money , it's gonna have to work 100% and be priced right. and as you said neither will be there any time soon.

[Libertarian_Geek]

I wanted one from the day I saw it .. unfortunately, it seems like kel tec has a pattern of launching products with appeal , then limiting production to the point that only the few that make it to the shelves go for an obscene amount of money .
RFB .. wanted one , probably not gonna happen
KSG .. wanted one , probably not gonna happen
pmr-30 wanted one , probably not gonna happen
su-16 in 300 BLK want one , probably not gonna happen either.

I even joined the kel tec forum at one point to see what the story was straight form kel tec....
gave up on that too...

I do have a kydex cheek rest for the RFB .. I bought it when I was looking for an RFB .
I gave up when people started bidding $700 over retail , and half of the ones that were produced seemed to have gone back to kel tec for repair,based on the reviews on their forum.


pm me if you have and RFB and want a kydex cheek rest.

I wanted an RFB and KSG and I made it happen. You can too, if you spend some cash and stop concerning yourself with MSRP and dealer pricing. Either won't be there any time soon.

I'm sorry , but that's just not gonna happen! the RFB may look cool , but it's not "that" cool !


when the price goes down and the bugs are worked out maybe , but until then , no way .
I know some people bought one for $2k just so someone at the gun range can go "what the $%#@ is that?" , but i'm just not that guy.

if I'm gonna spend my hard earned money , it's gonna have to work 100% and be priced right. and as you said neither will be there any time soon.

I got mine for $1500 from a normally-over-priced shop when they were going for $1800 on Gunbroker. I just walked in and was surprised that they had one.

[imyomama]

I got mine for $1500 from a normally-over-priced shop when they were going for $1800 on Gunbroker. I just walked in and was surprised that they had one.

that is surprising !

I only saw one at a gun show here last year and the guy wanted $2100 and would not even let me pick it up from the table...
I told him if I can't even touch it , it's not for sale! ... I would not have given him $2100 for it anyways !!
I was quoted $1325 when I ordered one , but I cancelled the order 6 months later when it was still is ever never land .....

[TROOPER]

Have, and still working on kinks. I'm seeing some of the tips take a beating when you dry-cycle this gun. I believe its the magazine seating; 51 nations use(d) the FN FAL as their main service rifle, so there are quite a few manufacturers of FAL mags. As such, there seems to be a wide range of tolerances.

Anyway, if the magazine isn't sat as deeply as others, then even if its positively inserted, the bullet smaches into the base of the feed ramp instead of hitting the feed ramp in the angle portion. If this is the case, then maybe I can dremel just a tiny bit off of the feed-ramp base, smooth it, and see that change.

I have wondered if other people had the same problem, but simply never noticed it because you're not supposed to dry-fire this rifle (I only do it with the utmost caution, ensuring that the round exits the firearm before racking the slide again).

I'm also dealing with accuracy issues. JDrinnen and myself took it out, but we couldn't post a group to save our lives. He theorized that the scope might be shot out - which is a possibility. But when we mounted that same scope on his Ruger scout, it did just fine. I haven't told him yet, but I believe I found the problem a few hours ago when I removed the scope and base, and noticed that the rail itself was loose in the front. I tightened it down, put on the quad-rail and a bipod (looks dorky as hell) and a Nikon 6-18 x 40 fine-cross hair. So configured, I feel like I should be able to get the very best out of the gun, and even though it won't stay in that configuration, it will let me see what my particular rifle's 100-yard accuracy is.

Here, I'll scrape out a picture.


Dorky, but with a sandbag under the butt, it should be about as accurate as its going to get on a bench. A vice would be better, but without a 10-round magazine, or a specific vice, that isn't going to happen.

What kind of accuracy -- best accuracy -- are you guys seeing at 100 yards with your RFBs?

[Libertarian_Geek]

I've got no magnification on mine, since it's setup for a night gun (for feral hogs). I need to group it to see how it's doing.

Eotech EXPS
YHM 762 SS Phantom QD
Laser Devices ITAL Classic IR Laser
DIY Kydex + neoprene + tooldip cheekrest

I'm probably going to order a longer top-rail for it and experiment w/ the PVS 14 behind the eotech.

I'm shooting 168gr Hornady Amax handloads (Hodgdon H4895, I'll have to check my notes for the powder load, but it's what I use in my bolt gun)

I've noticed the tips getting beat up when you dry-cycle it too (at least w/ the DSArms mag that came w/ it). I have some surplus mags that I need to see how they do.

I had to lock-tite the bolt-release tab screws because I had one back almost all of the way out on me. I should probably check the rail screws too.

As far as the price goes. I could kick myself. I had a chance at one for $1325 from a shop (Simmon's sporting goods) where I had placed a "call me" note on one. They called, I was at work, and didn't commit to purchase. When I stopped by that evening, it had sold. 6 Months later, I found the one at Hoover Tactical for $1500. They said that they get them in about once per month and that they sell anywhere between 3 days and 2 weeks.

[Libertarian_Geek]

Let me catalog my dislikes:

Brass-checks suck. You have to remove the mag.
As Trooper mentioned, the bullet tips take some abuse when you manually cycle it to empty it.
I had to move my charging handle to the right side because I kept skinning my knuckles on the Eotech. Maybe the longer charging handle would solve this.
The top rail is too short. It needs to extend rearwards.
The top-metal gets real hot in Alabama during summer time shooting w/ a silencer.
It's loud (because the muzzle is so close to your face). That's just the cost of a bull-pup 308.
It doesn't really balance well without a silencer. So, the silencer fixes this one and the loudness one.
The screws everywhere. Which ones do I need to locktite?
It was hard to find in stock
Core components are only available from Keltec. Sure, accessories are now being made by other folks, but you won't find a bolt by anyone else (yet.)

Now, my likes:

7.62 x51 (popular caliber, very common, good for killing pigs, I already reload it)
You can safely shoot commercial 308 or military 7.62x51 in it
With a can, it balances very nicely
For a semi-auto 308, it's very light
It's cheaper than a SCAR and many AR10s
18" Barrel and yet it's overall length is shorter than my 11.5" AR
It's got a pretty nice stock trigger. Crisp without a lot of pre/over travel (for a stock gun)
It slings well and rides in a truck/golf-cart nicely even with a long can on it
The rail-height and cheek position makes it possible to use a helmet-mounted PVS14 and sight through a rail mounted Eotech. (not great, but usable)
All of my brass lands in a nice, neat pile. It doesn't land down my buddies shirt or hit him in the face
It has a moderate boutique market for accessories

My overall opinion: I like it for my purposes. It makes a good night hog hunting rifle. It's never as good as you'd like it to be, but it's worth the money that I put down. This could change if there's some major failure. The decision point for me is so close on this one that if for any reason I had to wait on Kel-tec to work on it, or send me a part, I'd be pissed and it would tip the scale to dislike. I'm not one of those people that drops a load of cash on something and then defends it as if it's a reflection of their intelligence. On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being "give it away" and 10 being "trade a golden egg laying goose for one" (and 5 being "meh"), I give it a 6.5.

Now, what would I replace it with? I don't know.

[imyomama]

replace it with? I don't know.

That's easy 300 blk SBR. Still plenty of hog power, way more parts available ,way quieter!

[Libertarian_Geek]

replace it with? I don't know.

That's easy 300 blk SBR. Still plenty of hog power, way more parts available ,way quieter!

At one time, I considered it. But now, I no longer have a taste for pricey brass (or hunting for it at night in a peanut field). Besides, I just reduced my calibers (got rid of my 6.8 SBR upper).

[TROOPER]

Well poo. I was hoping for someone besides GunBlast to chime in with accuracy reports. I have read about some amazing - and frankly, too-good-to-be-true - shooting from one of the KT forums. I don't know that I consider that to be a trusted source. Not like this one is either, but individuals can be trustworthy.

Maybe I'm asking too much of this firearm. But then... Townsend Whelen is quoted as saying, "Only accurate rifles are interesting." I can't say that I 100% agree, but I will concede that he is 100% correct.

Whatever that means.


I'm going to try this out again next Saturday - conditions permitting - and I'll come back with the best report I can scrape up. Which is to say, I'll only report the best two-shot group I can manage - just to put my finger in rsilvers' eye. I kid... I'll give a very comprehensive assessment of its accuracy, with as much possible information so people can draw their own conclusions.

[Libertarian_Geek]

I'll try to get to the range and do a group in a few weeks. Maybe sooner, if I go after work one evening. I'm pretty interested to find out the accuracy too.

[imyomama]

I'll be interested in seeing some groups as well... No less than 10 shot groups please !

[Libertarian_Geek]

... No less than 10 shot groups please !

But of course.

[Surly]

Well poo. I was hoping for someone besides GunBlast to chime in with accuracy reports.

I shoot rocks and other s--t. I don't bother punching holes in paper...not even when sighting in. A fist sized rock at 100 vanishes when there's a direct hit.

[Libertarian_Geek]

If I can get to the range this weekend (without rain), I'll group my RFB and will post the results.

By the way. After my last hunting trip (and some shitty shooting) I do have to say that hunting with an IR laser as your sight takes a lot of practice (and that practice takes lots of ammo). A scope is much more natural to me. I don't have a night scope that I can put on it. Because of this, I may be selling my RFB.

[dtom29]

I got mine for $1500 from a normally-over-priced shop when they were going for $1800 on Gunbroker. I just walked in and was surprised that they had one.

that is surprising !

I only saw one at a gun show here last year and the guy wanted $2100 and would not even let me pick it up from the table...
I told him if I can't even touch it , it's not for sale! ... I would not have given him $2100 for it anyways !!
I was quoted $1325 when I ordered one , but I cancelled the order 6 months later when it was still is ever never land .....

I know I'm kind of late with this....I looked last night and found the slip from my RFB purchase. I paid $1350 for mine in January of 2011. You would think by now the availablity would be up and the price down.

[Libertarian_Geek]

As promised....


I slapped a 10x Bushnell scope on it and headed to the range. I had my YHM Stainless QD Phantom on it the whole time.

It's a bitch to get setup on bags. It helped to have large home-made rice bags.

My best of three 20 shot groups (yesterday) at 100 yards. The lines on the target are spaced at 1"



I'm not thrilled, but it's not outside of my expectations.

[TROOPER]

I'm getting almost the same thing. I had a devil of a time getting an appropriate bag under the rear of the gun -- seems everything was too high, or too low. I also noticed that it seems all of my stringing is vertical, which leads me to believe that there is some user error, or a loose component. I have the nagging feeling that my rail is loose again. Also, in the picture that I posted earlier, it may not be immediately obvious, but after shooting on Saturday.... holy poop... that scope is WAY too low. Getting an eye centered on that scope requires something beyond a cheek weld... more like a cheek merger. Also, for people who don't know, shooting an RFB with a really hard cheek weld results in a face-punch with each trigger pull due to the giant bolt flipping around under there.

I'm going to try for round three with this thing... I'm going to loctite any screw I can find that could possibly be responsible for the vertical stringing... I'm going to use a good riser.... a comfortable cheek weld... and basically any other advantage I can find to help me get the best accuracy out of the rifle. Then I'll know what to expect.

However, going into it at this stage.... this is not a 3/4 MOA rifle as I have seen it described in other places. Could be just mine, but I'm not going to try to sell mine and acquire a different one in the hopes that this is true. No, KTOG and the other KT forum have indicated that this is a 1.5-2.5 MOA rifle, and that seems to be in line with my current (albeit slightly handicapped) experience.

Hardly useless as it is still a very, very handy semi-auto 308 that is fully ambidextrous. That's a lot of power with virtually none of the inconveniences associated with it. But a "sniper rifle" it ain't. And while the cartridge might be good for substantially greater distances, getting that power onto target 'out there' is a crapshoot. I doubt anyone would notice this rifle's MOA capabilities when using an un-magnified Eotech or iron sights. In that capacity, it truly shines.


((I am secretly *possibly* regretting this purchase, and may break the cardinal rule of "don't-sell-a-gun-because-you-will-inevitably-regret-it-later". But then, I've salivated over this rifle since its public announcement in 07'... my expectations are/were so high in the years before acquiring it that I may have done myself a disservice.))