Lowest bore to hand axis in 45 pistol....Glock?

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vike
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Lowest bore to hand axis in 45 pistol....Glock?

Post by vike »

Does Glock have the lowest hand to bore axis of the 45s? What other makes and models will be close to Glock? Is HK better than 1911s and Sigs or about the same in having the bore high above your hand?
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TROOPER
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Re: Lowest bore to hand axis in 45 pistol....Glock?

Post by TROOPER »

I believe it is GLOCK, but it would take a global knowledge of handguns to say so definitively. One of the ways to be relatively certain that it is a GLOCK, is to look at the grip angle. That relatively steep angle is what is responsible for most of the lower bore-axis.

Hold your forearm out in front of you parallel to the ground. Now make a fist, and alter the imaginary grip angle. Lowering the bore-axis relative to the hand is not quite as important as lowering the grip angle relative to the forearm, and that requires a steeper angle. The increased grip angle of a GLOCK is what makes the recoil feel lighter, because more of the energy is transferred into the forearm as opposed to being transferred to torque which twists the wrist upwards. This lowers muzzle-flip.

Bottom line: I don't know, but since grip-angle plays heavily into this question, and because I don't know of any other semi-auto 45s with a grip angle as steep as a GLOCK, then it feels like a safe bet.
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chrismartin
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Re: Lowest bore to hand axis in 45 pistol....Glock?

Post by chrismartin »

The 1911, with a good beaver tail and an undercut trigger guard is a very low bore axis to the hand.
HK's and Sig's are the highest (Well, HiPoint would be THE highest lol) IMHO.
The Glocks are good.
Also check out the M&P's. They have a high beaver tail and a low slide. They tend to feel even lower than my 1911's.
It's also got a better grip angle than the Glocks.
vike
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Re: Lowest bore to hand axis in 45 pistol....Glock?

Post by vike »

what are some good 1911s that are to the original design not exceeding 1k?
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chrismartin
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Re: Lowest bore to hand axis in 45 pistol....Glock?

Post by chrismartin »

If you need a threaded barrel, the best option in that price range are the Sig 1911's (TacOps TB and Scorpion TB)
It, however, has the series 80 firing pin block and an external extractor. However, the series 80 parts really aren't a big deal and their external extractor design is good and works fine.

If you don't need a threaded barrel, the Springfield Loaded is my favorite "cheap" 1911. There are tons of options though, Rock Island, Springfield Range Officer, STI Trojan, etc.

My personal favorite 1911s are: Springfield Lightweight Champion Operator, Dan Wesson CBOB and my Sig Nightmare Carry.
If I wanted a full sized 1911 with a threaded barrel, I'd get the Sig Scorpion. For non-threaded, I'd get the Springfield Loaded.
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Re: Lowest bore to hand axis in 45 pistol....Glock?

Post by vike »

Thanks Chris, What do you think of the Kimbers? I see they have one that comes threaded and around 1k.
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Re: Lowest bore to hand axis in 45 pistol....Glock?

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The depth of that beaver-tail lowers the bore-axis relative to both the hand AND the forearm, but it's the grip angle of the GLOCK which puts the grip-angle lowest relative to the forearm, and that is what cuts perceived recoil and muzzle-flip. Not knocking on a 1911, and not really promoting a GLOCK either, just pointing out that the original question is semi-flawed: it isn't bore-axis relative to hand, it's bore-axis relative to forearm.... a high beaver-tail is part of it... but a steep grip-angle is important as well.

Or look at it this way: if your grip was at 90 degrees, then even if the barrel was removed from the firearm and was sitting directly on top of your fist, you'd have a bore-axis of .25 inches... but an unremarkable decrease in muzzle-flip since the bore-axis would still be high relative to the forearm.

What's torque? T = F * L ... where 'L' is height above axis of rotation... and that point of rotation isn't the top of your fist, it's your wrist.
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chrismartin
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Re: Lowest bore to hand axis in 45 pistol....Glock?

Post by chrismartin »

vike wrote:Thanks Chris, What do you think of the Kimbers? I see they have one that comes threaded and around 1k.
I own two Kimbers (Pro Carry II and a Super Match) and have worked on several other ones.
Kimbers are OK. I don't have anything against them other than to say the following...
The do not really have a "custom shop" even though they print that on the side of their guns. Meaning, they don't really have a bunch of classic 1911 gunsmiths dedicated to doing custom work. Think about it more like a marketing term. Colt and Springfield have custom shops that you can send 1911's to them and they will modify them as needed.
Secondly, Kimber uses the same parts on all their guns. The super fancy $1500+ kimber will have the same exact trigger parts as the cheapest base model, with no additional fitting or tuning. Just drop them in, check for function and off to sale. It will have a nicer finish, more mill work on the slide, etc. and look prettier, but it's not a Wilson or Les Baer where someone hand fitted all the parts and tuned them.
I think Kimbers sweet spot is the base models priced at around $700 (that price has been increasing though.) So, if you think that $700 + the cost of the threaded barrel makes it worth while, I'd say it's an OK option.

However, I'd rather have the Sig Scorpion TB or TacOps before the Kimber, any day. The fit and finish of my Sig nightmare carry blows away my Kimbers. The fire control group was better (so much so, I don't care about the series 80 parts, can't really tell they are there!), the finish on the frame and slide are better and it works great (though it does have a tight chamber, works 100% with factory ammo though, so BFD)

If you don't like the Sig's series 80 parts or external extractor, I can dig it, but it's a damn good pistol :)

I'd also have you consider picking up the Springfield Loaded (can be found for $650 new) and then pick up a $220 Storm Lake barrel and have it fitted. You'd have a better gun with a fitted barrel for less than $1K. Springfield Custom shop can even do the work and you'll maintain factory warranty too (I don't know if they have to source the barrel or if you have to provide one)
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