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 Post subject: Beretta 92 full auto conversion
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Hi everybody, last year I found this PDF document on the patent for a device to convert a beretta 92 full auto mode. After carefully watching this PDF and my beretta I realized that the modification were it can be achieved quite easily. I order a safety for make the modification same as the PDF but I have a slight problem because when I put it in full auto mode security right side can emerge. I wonder if someone has already make the change or if someone could help me. Here are some picture to give you an Overview of the problem.


The PDF
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The original safety
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The modified safety
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Here is a description of fontionnement
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Here is a description of Probem explain above
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Here's the problem, In this position the right side of the security may leave the hole
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I know that this modification works because it is a company that sells a beretta 92 with this modification and made a demonstration video on Youtube. Here is a link to the company in question and the link on Youtube.

http://www.autoweapons.com/products/postdealersamples.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woHl2uEOnAo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:39 pm 
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A waste of time & effort IMO; low magazine capacity and sketchy controllability are inevitable in this configuration. If it ain't got at least a 30 round mag available, I see little use in select fire capability (whether legal or not). :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:45 pm 
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NN4S wrote:
A waste of time & effort IMO; low magazine capacity and sketchy controllability are inevitable in this configuration. If it ain't got at least a 30 round mag available, I see little use in select fire capability (whether legal or not). :roll:




Thank you for your constructive response, but I think you're wrong section. You should keep your expertise to the Random Talk section because the person full of knowledge as you should not waste their time answering basic questions like mine. But thank you for your attention I really appreciate an expert of the Random Talk section are coming to offer help.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:21 pm 
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Look, troll, coming here to get advice on doing questionable things and trying to draw folks in ain't kosher. I don't see you listing any information on yourself or your location- not exactly like you're here to join the crew and contribute. :?

Yes, I'm more than willing to express my opinion on the matter- especially if it ends up helping keep some poor slob from being enticed into attempting something that'll get them slammed into federal prison. I don't care what you think of my "expertise" or opinions; at least I'm willing to let the folks here know who & where I am and stand behind it.

If you're not in the US, then it may or may not be legal for you to do this. Posting your location would at least give us a reason to believe you're not trolling. It's not for us- at least not for those who aren't papered to do so. :roll: Since we have no info on where you're at due to lack of profile info, all we can assume is that you're here to bait folks into doing stuff that'll get them in trouble with the feds.

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Last edited by NN4S on Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:24 pm 
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i used to have a few 30 round magazines for my 92fs. i imagine with it being full auto it would be uncontrollable but thankfully the 92 has a extended barrel that is easily threadable for a compensator like the 18c glock

thanks for the pics palladium and keep up the good work. good luck with this conversion.

as far as nn4s,

palladium isn't a troll, he's a machinist from across the pond that knows more about weapons then you could learn in a book. he's been on st.com well before you, and yes, your constructive response isn't necessary, we are all big boys here.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:43 pm 
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trey_phish83 wrote:
palladium isn't a troll, he's a machinist from across the pond that knows more about weapons then you could learn in a book. he's been on st.com well before you.


Well, I'm glad to hear that he's well versed and, most importantly, from somewhere he can build this type of thing without legal issues. Given the post count and lack of info, it is understandable why I would believe he was trolling. Palladium, you have my apology for assuming you were just out to make trouble.

I do stand by my opinion on the select fire pistol; I have enough experience with various subguns and their behaviour to know how I feel on the subject. Then again, the speed in which my M11 and UZI run through a mag tend to have influenced that. The M11 is much better with the Lage upper, but it still doesn't run like my beltfeds... so yes, I feel the select fire guns with low cap mags are a waste of time. I don't bother running the .45 ACP kit in my UZI because of it's 16 round mags, so why would I want to do so with a pistol? :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:53 pm 
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very true. low capacity is no fun, but for me speed is :wink:

i seek to get my m11 faster with everything i do to it. last machine gun shoot i was assaulted by the belt fed guys asking how in the heck my beginner machine gun was that fast. made me proud to have something those guys were actually interested in.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:05 pm 
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trey_phish83 wrote:
very true. low capacity is no fun, but for me speed is :wink:

i seek to get my m11 faster with everything i do to it. last machine gun shoot i was assaulted by the belt fed guys asking how in the heck my beginner machine gun was that fast. made me proud to have something those guys were actually interested in.


Hell, dumping 30 rounds in 1.5 seconds was too fast for my liking. How fast have you got yours jacked up to run? I've heard of folks getting 1800 rpm out of them, but I can't imagine dumping the mags that fast.:roll: I love mine now that I've got a Lage slow fire upper for it; it gets shot more often than the UZI running 9mm and I can easily pull off singles & doubles with it.

I guess running through 100 & 200 round belts of .22lr has got me spoiled- I can actually afford to dump large quantities downrange and it isn't over in a flash! :lol:

Anyway, enough of that. Palladium, do you have any type of large capacity feeds worked out for use with your "model 93" (that was what the FA 92 was, IIRC) conversion? Say maybe an extended mag or converted drum?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:28 pm 
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NN4S wrote:
Anyway, enough of that. Palladium, do you have any type of large capacity feeds worked out for use with your "model 93" (that was what the FA 92 was, IIRC) conversion? Say maybe an extended mag or converted drum?


I think someone already worked that out a while back...
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The criticism in your first post was lame. It read like it was written by a loud mouth know it all. Calling his work,time, and effort a waste? The fact you didn't know 30+ round magazines are manufactured for the Beretta 92 shows you didn't even have any business posting what you did.http://lmgtfy.com/?q=beretta+92fs+32rd

You didn't even research whether or not their are high capacity magazines.


You just posted some dumb shit. Period.
NN4S wrote:
A waste of time & effort IMO; low magazine capacity and sketchy controllability are inevitable in this configuration. If it ain't got at least a 30 round mag available, I see little use in select fire capability (whether legal or not). :roll:


All it would've taken to see he is not a a troll was to look at how long he has been a member and look at his previous posts. (Which can be accessed from his profile.)

A F/A 92 can be very controllable when fitted with a buttstock, compensator,and vfg.

Watch...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X5NQGUcCeg


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:28 pm 
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Good luck with your project palladium!Machinepistols are a lot of fun!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:33 pm 
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Very impressive and I don't really care if its legal to do here or not. Its still legal to talk about.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:14 pm 
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^ true that.. I like looking at palladiums threads. They are interesting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:39 pm 
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Could you machine another pin into the slide? When it passes the first pin, the second pin should keep it in place.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:34 am 
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Definitely interesting. Good luck.

PS The first response post was a waste of space.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:55 am 
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Please post vids when you are done, this is too cool. 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:13 am 
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jonscott1983 wrote:
Could you machine another pin into the slide? When it passes the first pin, the second pin should keep it in place.



The space to add another pin in the slide is fairly confine. option is that I redraw with Solidworks the lever on the right side to add another check angle. I will try to design with solidworks on this week and I'll show you a picture to give you a preview.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:28 am 
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Fireman1291 wrote:
Please post vids when you are done, this is too cool. 8)


Once complete I will be happy to put a little video on Youtube to see it in action. I'm glad to know that you appreciate my post and thank you all for your encouragement and your support.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:40 pm 
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Looks like another fun project. I'll be looking forward to the video.

I did a crappy edit of your photo to illustrate my thought. You may be able to machine a small amount of the part to allow the spring loaded retention pin to do it's job still. Can you remove what I marked red in the photo, just deep enough for the retainer to keep the security locked in place?

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:03 am 
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the1mavin wrote:
Looks like another fun project. I'll be looking forward to the video.

I did a crappy edit of your photo to illustrate my thought. You may be able to machine a small amount of the part to allow the spring loaded retention pin to do it's job still. Can you remove what I marked red in the photo, just deep enough for the retainer to keep the security locked in place?

Image


Yes it is possible for me to remove the part in red on the photo and I think it solved my problem, but I am not sure but I'll try with solidworks on a simulated assembly. I had a different idea about the change but I do think your idea is better than mine and it would be easier for me to achieve. I'll try it this weekend in solidworks simulation. I really appreciate your suggestion because you just give me the solution may be. Thank you very much !!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:58 pm 
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palladium wrote:
the1mavin wrote:
Looks like another fun project. I'll be looking forward to the video.

I did a crappy edit of your photo to illustrate my thought. You may be able to machine a small amount of the part to allow the spring loaded retention pin to do it's job still. Can you remove what I marked red in the photo, just deep enough for the retainer to keep the security locked in place?

Image


Yes it is possible for me to remove the part in red on the photo and I think it solved my problem, but I am not sure but I'll try with solidworks on a simulated assembly. I had a different idea about the change but I do think your idea is better than mine and it would be easier for me to achieve. I'll try it this weekend in solidworks simulation. I really appreciate your suggestion because you just give me the solution may be. Thank you very much !!!


Palladium - just wondering if you had an opportunity to get any further with this?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:28 pm 
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PRETTY KOOL STUFF... :twisted:

Just curious, does anyone make a Walther P.38 conversion to select-fire or full-auto :?: I mention this as the actions seem to be quite similar & a friend of mine is working on a project with a P.38 as the platform. I realize that this will be an experimental Post '86 sample.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:19 pm 
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stymie wrote:
PRETTY KOOL STUFF... :twisted:

Just curious, does anyone make a Walther P.38 conversion to select-fire or full-auto :?: I mention this as the actions seem to be quite similar & a friend of mine is working on a project with a P.38 as the platform. I realize that this will be an experimental Post '86 sample.


i have only seen one. alot of work and the c2 refused to go into too much detail.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:16 pm 
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I remember an ad in SGN many years ago. Some @$$klown offered a "KIT" that turned a P.38 into an open-bolt firing machine pistol. The safety/decocker rotated the firing pin into full forward position & the slide release lever became the "trigger"...

WHOA... ATF freaked out & followed up with a warning letter. Pretty dangerous stuff if you encounter one without knowing that it was modded. :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:22 pm 
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that may have been how he did it. i think i still have one of those ads laying around here somewhere.would be interesting to find out if the guy has any info on his kiit,or landed in jail...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:16 am 
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stymie wrote:
I remember an ad in SGN many years ago. Some @$$klown offered a "KIT" that turned a P.38 into an open-bolt firing machine pistol. The safety/decocker rotated the firing pin into full forward position & the slide release lever became the "trigger"...

WHOA... ATF freaked out & followed up with a warning letter. Pretty dangerous stuff if you encounter one without knowing that it was modded. :shock:


WALTHER
MODEL P-38,
9MM LUGER CALIBER, PISTOLS

WARNING: Converted to FULLY-AUTOMATIC FIRING

Officers should exercise extreme caution with any Walther P38 type pistol. Law enforcement agencies at the Federal, State and local levels plus branches of the U.S. and Canadian military service have encountered Walther P38s having a potentially hazardous conversion.

The conversion consists of a modified firing pin, which is activated by placing the safety in the safe position. When the safety is placed in this position, the weapon will immediately fire without the trigger being pulled if a round is in the chamber. If the safety is engaged with the slide open the weapon will fire in the full automatic mode as soon as the slide is closed. The full automatic is activated by the safety alone. The conversion can be accomplished on post-war P38s made by Walther or Manurhin, manufactured since April 1940. Full automatic fire may be accomplished by changing the thumb safety lever.

There is no field test, which can be performed to determine if a P38 has this conversion installed and there are no visible modifications. Consequently, any Walther P38 type pistols encountered should be handled in the following manner:

1. Do not touch the trigger or safety
2. Remove the magazine
3. Place the safety in the fire position
4. Open the slide and ensure that the chamber is empty

Source:

* California Department of Justice Safety Note 86-1
* Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms, National Broadcast September 1985
* Florida Department of Law Enforcement Bulletin, February 1986
* New York State Police Academy Training Bulletin, Number 86-1, May 1986


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