Did Jonah really live inside a fish/whale for 72 hours?

Post by **silencertalk** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:20 pm

Did it really happen?

Molon labe · Post by **Molon labe** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:48 am

The Old Testament is types and shadows of thing that happen in the New Testament. Matthew 12:40 says, "for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a fish so the son of man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

interesting read

http://bible.cc/jonah/1-17.htm

doubloon · Post by **doubloon** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:00 am

Heh, the comments at that site are the best. People are willing to believe god kept Jonah alive underwater for some amount of time until the fish showed up then kept Jonah alive in the belly of the fish but they're unwilling to believe the fish might have been a whale because a whale's throat is too small to swallow a man. So making a whale's throat big enough or Jonah small enough to pass is beyond the power of god?

D9M9TR9S · Post by **D9M9TR9S** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:50 am

Lots of religious polls lately...
A lot of the questions exist simply because of the mistranslations and interpretations in the books that make up the Bible. If it could be read in its original language, a lot of these answers could be provided or given a step closer to understanding what is really being said. Also, a lot of the stories exist in books (Enuma Elish, Gilgamesh Epics, etc.,) that pre-date the bible.

bakerjw · Post by **bakerjw** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:16 am

Jonah was a teaching story. Not an actual event.
But... most evangelicals will dispute it because the bible is the word of God and therefore everything in it is to be taken literally except for "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

doubloon · Post by **doubloon** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:28 am

So where is the decoder ring to say what is a teaching story and what is an actual event?

bakerjw · Post by **bakerjw** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:18 am

You have to drink lot of Ovaltine to get one.

There is some debate as to whether or not it is a parable. It's nothing that be confirmed on this side of death.

jimmym40a2 · Post by **jimmym40a2** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:03 pm

It never says it was a Whale. It never said he was alive in the "special fish". As pointed out earlier as Jesus was dead for three days and then rose again. So I assume Jonah was dead and rose from the dead when he was spit out.I believe Jonah was a real person.

Vesper · Post by **Vesper** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:39 pm

Reminds me of...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Zcqd7Jus0

Tom Waits - Starving in the Belly of a Whale.

Enjoy

TROOPER · Post by **TROOPER** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:48 am

How much does it matter if it's a literal story versus a parable? The point was that one couldn't escape God's plan.

I have also heard that a lot get's lost in translation. An example is how the original supposedly says not to do murder, but the King James carried it over as "shall not kill" - which is important because a person could kill in self-defense, but 'murder' isn't exactly the same thing.

I suppose a lot of people take the book at face value, and assume that any translation would be intact by way of God's invisible hand or something. I'm sure others focus on the extrapolation of intent, and what lesson can be learned from each of the parables. I don't know that a functional difference exists as it pertains to the practical application of the Bible's lessons. That is... if a person believed that Jonah literally spent 72 hours in a whale's tummy before being literally ejected back at the location in which he was originally told to go... or if a person viewed the story as a fable meant to indicate the futility of defying God's plans... either person would respond to day-to-day events in the exact same manner.

Functionally, there isn't a difference.

doubloon · Post by **doubloon** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:09 am

TROOPER wrote:How much does it matter if it's a literal story versus a parable?
...
Functionally, there isn't a difference.

For me it's about establishing a baseline of truth about the existence of god and the origin of life, the universe and everything.

The difference is this. If what happened to Jonah wasn't real then what makes any story in the bible any different from stories about the tooth fairy or the bogeyman or Santa? All stories about intangible beings doling out reward or punishment based on behavior.

If the bible is a mishmash of made up s--t just to manipulate people and real events then how do you separate the made up s--t from the real events?

If the story of Jonah is made up just to teach people a lesson then who's to say the rest of the bible isn't made up by man to manipulate his fellow man as well?

Fulmen · Post by **Fulmen** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:56 am

doubloon wrote:who's to say the rest of the bible isn't made up by man

Exactly. You can believe the Bible tells the word of God because the Bible says so, if you stop accepting that circular reasoning you quickly understand that it's just a bunch of untestable claims. There is simply no way of confirming anything it says, nor does it seem like anybody can agree on what should be interpreted literally and what should not. So most end up cherry-picking what they like and disregard the rest, that way you can make it support virtually any position and claim you have God on your side.

YugoRPK · Post by **YugoRPK** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:07 pm

If you have faith, anything is possible. If you don't have faith, its a bunch of horse s--t.

Its a bunch of horse s--t.

doubloon · Post by **doubloon** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:52 pm

mcinfantry · Post by **mcinfantry** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:41 pm

if the bible is the word of god, why so many versions? who do you follow? in 300o some odd years, the stories suck for accuracy.

TROOPER · Post by **TROOPER** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:59 am

All good questions, Doubloon. Look at our government; they're made up mostly of idiots. They were put into that position because there were more idiots than not in the last two elections. Do you follow? Brace yourself...

People are idiots

The Bible is a story of a story of a story... it's a copy of a copy, with so many iterations in it that nuances are lost and facts get scrambled. It's gone through so many languages and interpretations... hell, even going from "Olde Englyshe" to what we see today loses content integrity. Our own Constitution isn't even that old, and people are reading it to such a wide range of intent that it's a joke.

Lookit. If you believe, good on you. If you don't, good on you. There are Christians and there are believers out there... and then there are people who look at the literal stories of the Bible and wonder how it's possible for anyone to suspend their disbelief long enough to take a knee in prayer. I'd hope that a good Christian doesn't fault anyone for skepticism. I'd also hope that someone who doesn't believe in the Bible - the literal or the metaphorical - doesn't go harshly on a believer that's trying to live their lives better, trying to improve their positive qualities of patience, non-judgementalism, as well as others, and who doesn't try to push their beliefs off on someone else.

That said; even if you don't believe in the literal Bible, or the stories in it that promote itself - but instead look at the lessons that the book is trying to impart, there's still value to be had. For the most part, the Bible also passes the acid test of functionalism; that is, if everyone in society lived the book to the letter... would society be better off? I think the answer is 'yes', and more so over a lot of other religions. Certainly better than the crap that goes on now.

YugoRPK · Post by **YugoRPK** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:49 am

TROOPER wrote: For the most part, the Bible also passes the acid test of functionalism; that is, if everyone in society lived the book to the letter... would society be better off?

Theres any number of -isms that the same could be said of.. Communism would have worked great for society if everyone had just followed the rules. Sure, society as a whole would be better off if everyone lived according to one book or another but if its at the expense of the role of individual free will then its just not worth it.
Do you really want people living the Old Testament to the letter or is that part getting disavowed?

Fulmen · Post by **Fulmen** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:07 am

TROOPER wrote:if everyone in society lived the book to the letter... would society be better off?

That would depend entirely on what parts you cherry-pick. OT? Not a chance, that's basically a story of murder and genocide condoned by a petty and vindictive God. NT is far better, there is little doubt that Jesus represents a major reform in religious thinking but there is still a whole lot of s--t in it. Personally I won't touch any of it with a ten foot pole, we can choose far better foundations for a society than 5000 year old bronze-age superstition. Some of the newer stuff might be OK, but these are things you can work out independently of any old books.

You don't have to be an almighty deity to figure out "do onto others...".

mcinfantry · Post by **mcinfantry** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:19 am

we have a local website that was started on the premise of the whale and bugging out preppers. both extreme, IMHO

doubloon · Post by **doubloon** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:55 am

TROOPER wrote:...
People are idiots
...

Right there with you 100% on this part and mostly on the rest of it.

I actually don't care if people believe what's in the bible or the torah or the quran is the word of god or not. The point of my questions really wasn't about whether or not anyone should believe in religion but more whether or not there is any actual evidence in the bible that all this was created by some infinite and superior being and how to separate the fact from the embellishment.

As far as religion goes I believe most religions, as practiced today, are useful for teaching morals and tolerance. But, just like politics, they eventually become overrun with personal agenda over the years. It's an endless cycle that gets longer as populations get larger. The catholic church is still grappling with a "reform" cycle that started after the last council in the 1960s.

I agree, most people need someone to tell them what to do at some time or another, some place to go for answers and religion constructively fills that void for a lot of people. I believe religion has a valuable role in society but, like a tampons, I don't have much use for it.

Fulmen · Post by **Fulmen** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:33 am

doubloon wrote:some place to go for answers and religion constructively fills that void for a lot of people

I've always wondered to what extent this is a need created by religion. Sure we all have some deep questions about how and why we are here, but some seem to DEMAND an answer. And they seem to accept any answer even when it's completely improbable and no evidence has ever been produced. Me, I'd rather take an honest "I don't know" over religious fiction every time, but then again I wasn't brainwashed as a child. Are some people just like that or is it something they're taught?

I believe religion has a valuable role in society but, like a tampons, I don't have much use for it.

That's priceless.

Dweezil · Post by **Dweezil** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:24 pm

Why do I feel like we're all unwitting subjects in somebody's research project?

Fulmen · Post by **Fulmen** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:29 pm

I know what you mean. If there IS a God I'm positive we're some kid's half-assed science fair project that will be the laughing stock of the entire audience.

Conqueror · Post by **Conqueror** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:40 pm

It is moderately depressing that one third of polled adults believe it is possible for a human to live inside a fish for three days.

doubloon · Post by **doubloon** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:57 pm

If people believe it's possible for a human can live inside another human for 9 months then why not a fish for 3 days?