Young/Goodwin/Kruger Auto X-prize team confirm HHO gas!

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Young/Goodwin/Kruger Auto X-prize team confirm HHO gas!

Post by GlockandRoll »

Niel Young slipped a bit in this TV interview.. time is 5:35.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_vzNH0nkX4

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Post by Blaubart »

WTF is up with Neil Young in that David Letterman interview? He looks like a homeless man that just got paid $20 to be on some Bumfights video.

Image

And the three guys standing around in the garage seem to be drunk.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't consider any of these people to be reliable sources of information.

Again, for something that is supposed to have such a dramatic effect on mileage, why haven't we seen any undisputable evidence that proves that it works?
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Post by GlockandRoll »

Blaubart wrote: I'm sorry, but I wouldn't consider any of these people to be reliable sources of information.

Again, for something that is supposed to have such a dramatic effect on mileage, why haven't we seen any undisputable evidence that proves that it works?
You wouldn't consider them reliable sources of information - even thought they may be poised to win the X-prize... REALLY???? Umm.. ok.


And what, exactly, do you consider "(i)ndisputable evidence"; for the sake of F--k man - it's pretty obvious that CO2 levels are at an all time high and the climate is changing... yet that gets 'un-disputed' all the time?

You really should think before you post, and probably even consider having someone ghost write your responses.
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Post by silencertalk »

It used to be called 'global warming' but then we learned that was not selling very well because things were getting colder. So now they call it 'climate change.'

I don't believe anyone disputes that the climate is changing. The dispute is if it is made-made and possible to reverse.
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Post by GlockandRoll »

rsilvers wrote:It used to be called 'global warming' but then we learned that was not selling very well because things were getting colder. So now they call it 'climate change.'

I don't believe anyone disputes that the climate is changing. The dispute is if it is made-made and possible to reverse.
I don't completely agree that THIS is where the dispute is.
I believe that this is, however, where card-carrying GOP cool-aide drinkers want the dispute to lie.

The real question is, how quickly are we accelerating it.

I don't think that anyone reasonable could argue that mankind has not accelerated it since the industrial age via deforestation and CO2 output.
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Post by delmccormick »

To question that the actions of man over the last 50 to 100 years could have caused a shift in the global climate system, or that man could possibly effect a noticeable change/reversal in a system of that size (with 10,000 year long cycles) is eminently reasonable.
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Post by flip »

#1 Who cares?

#2 To what point do you shove regulations up someones ass based on a theory. We are about as clean as we can get without choking off productivity and taking ourselves out of the competitive global market. The big polluters are in China and India and I know they don't give one s--t about emissions. If we ain't all gonna play ball, it ain't gonna make a difference.

#3 The average cyclical global climate shift happens about every 10,000 years, guess how long it's been since the last one. We aren't accelerating s--t. Quit listening to Al Gore, you sound like my cousin :roll:
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Post by Ben B. »

Neil Young. Jiminy Christmas...Might as well get the Rev. Al Sharpton behind it.
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Post by silencertalk »

GlockandRoll wrote:I don't think that anyone reasonable could argue that mankind has not accelerated it since the industrial age via deforestation and CO2 output.
I am not sure if we have or have not, but I do not take it as a given that we have because extra C02 will just make trees, plants, and algae bloom which consumed C02 and produces O2. If you inject C02 into a greenhouse, plants will grow more quickly. One could make a reasonable argument it is good for the environment if you like green.

Sure as heck we should not crush the economy in a sudden attempt to correct what we don't understand. We can take 100 years to think about it more. Perhaps if we are wrong, we will gain 1/10 a degree F during that time.
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Post by GlockandRoll »

Ben B. wrote:Neil Young. Jiminy Christmas...Might as well get the Rev. Al Sharpton behind it.
Who better to sponsor a project like this than a millionaire rock star with a 4 decade long "stick it too the man" attitude?
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Post by Ben B. »

Yup. Now add in the black demographic so it is not just another "thing that white people like", and at the same time make it part of the Christian demographic.

Neil Young disparaged CDs, because they didn't capture "the sound of air" the way analog tape did. Sound of air = static noise.

I hope the HHO pans out. I don't understand how it can, tho.
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Post by GlockandRoll »

Back in the beginning, reel-to-reel and phono DID sound better than CD's... becuase something was lost in the AD conversion.

Same reason tube amps sound better than solid state amps.

Anyway, I just got off the phone with Nicholas at H-Line Conversions... and it looks like I'll be able to order their Hydrogen on Demand units soon.

They currently have 4 cells in LincVolt, and I could hear them talking about the CNG powered wankle in the background.

This is extremely exciting for me.
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Post by Poacher »

rsilvers wrote:
GlockandRoll wrote:I don't think that anyone reasonable could argue that mankind has not accelerated it since the industrial age via deforestation and CO2 output.
I am not sure if we have or have not, but I do not take it as a given that we have because extra C02 will just make trees, plants, and algae bloom which consumed C02 and produces O2. If you inject C02 into a greenhouse, plants will grow more quickly. One could make a reasonable argument it is good for the environment if you like green.

Sure as heck we should not crush the economy in a sudden attempt to correct what we don't understand. We can take 100 years to think about it more. Perhaps if we are wrong, we will gain 1/10 a degree F during that time.
1) It is quite arrogant of us to think we could affect the earth like that.
2) It's a money maker for alot of companies and Al Gore types
3)All of there theories are based on forcasting models that can't predict a week in advanced reliably.

Those that have been to third world countries know that we couldn't begin to pollute like they do... :roll:
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Post by GlockandRoll »

Poacher wrote:
rsilvers wrote:
GlockandRoll wrote:I don't think that anyone reasonable could argue that mankind has not accelerated it since the industrial age via deforestation and CO2 output.
I am not sure if we have or have not, but I do not take it as a given that we have because extra C02 will just make trees, plants, and algae bloom which consumed C02 and produces O2. If you inject C02 into a greenhouse, plants will grow more quickly. One could make a reasonable argument it is good for the environment if you like green.

Sure as heck we should not crush the economy in a sudden attempt to correct what we don't understand. We can take 100 years to think about it more. Perhaps if we are wrong, we will gain 1/10 a degree F during that time.
1) It is quite arrogant of us to think we could affect the earth like that.
2) It's a money maker for alot of companies and Al Gore types
3)All of there theories are based on forcasting models that can't predict a week in advanced reliably.

Those that have been to third world countries know that we couldn't begin to pollute like they do... :roll:
Couple of qiuck points.
1. CO2 increase has not been shown to increase plantlife.
2. Based on #1, we have to also understand deforestation = it's real.
3. I'm not blaming American, in fact aside from our cars we are the good guys... our industry is very clean.
4. Gas spectral analysis of polar ice has shown a drastic spike in CO2 over the past 600K years, so there's no debate that CO2 is high.
5. It's a money maker if the free market warrants it, not if federally mandated... that never works.
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Post by Twinsen »

Good luck on getting the s--t to work. At the very least, chasing these ideas will unearth more basic ways of getting plain gas cars to use less gas. I doubt HHO will ever work, but hey, they might come up with some great tweaks.
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Post by TROOPER »

GlockandRoll wrote:Couple of qiuck points.
1. CO2 increase has not been shown to increase plantlife.
2. Based on #1, we have to also understand deforestation = it's real.
3. I'm not blaming American, in fact aside from our cars we are the good guys... our industry is very clean.
4. Gas spectral analysis of polar ice has shown a drastic spike in CO2 over the past 600K years, so there's no debate that CO2 is high.
5. It's a money maker if the free market warrants it, not if federally mandated... that never works.
Point #1 is wrong. Evergreens grew at a point-per-point match capped at 50% presence of CO2. That is, if you increased the presence of CO2 in an greenhouse by 4%, then the evergreen grew 4% faster.

Point #2 is quasi-wrong. There are more trees in the continental US NOW than there were prior to the settling of non-Native-Americans.

Point #3 is a point that proponents of the Kyoto Treaty need to have beat in to them.

Point #4 is kind of nonsensical since large-scale combustion that would produce the levels of CO2 necessary to constitute a bona fide "man-made" shift hasn't been ramped up long enough to account for certain spikes.

Even in colonial days, there was at least one year where winter seemingly DID NOT END. It was later discovered that this was a "nuclear winter" caused by the eruption of a volcano on the other side of the world. Point being, the debris and polution neccessary to cause a nuclear winter that lasted just over a year is astonishing and not really replicable by mankind.

Point #5 is also wrong. "Going Green" may undoubtedly have some altruistic components to it, but I am very confident in saying that it is a trend that has much more to do with capturing market share and earning dollars for most corporations as opposed to any actual die-hard attempt to lessen the environmental impact of any particular industry.
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Post by GlockandRoll »

TROOPER wrote:
GlockandRoll wrote: 4. Gas spectral analysis of polar ice has shown a drastic spike in CO2 over the past 600K years, so there's no debate that CO2 is high.
Point #4 is kind of nonsensical since large-scale combustion that would produce the levels of CO2 necessary to constitute a bona fide "man-made" shift hasn't been ramped up long enough to account for certain spikes.
I think it's pretty obvious that CO2 levels are at an all time high - going back more than 600K years. So, dismissing this - when we know it to be fact - does wreak of nonsense.

And, FWIW, I'm not so concerned with the environment as I am shutting down big oil's influence on capital hill, not to mention starving the camel jokey ridden s--t holes that all seem to want to blow me the F--k up.

Gayle Bank's view on this resonates well with me, who said "Look guys... if we keep doing things the way we are doing them, we are going to keep giving money to people that want to kill us, and keep sending our sons to die. If we invested in bio fuels instead, we would be sending the money to the Midwest."

This is a national security issue for me, far more than I see it as an environmental issue as if we do not change our ways - the environment really wont matter that much.

The earth would shrug us off and keep on going, not even the large meteor that impacted the Yucatan that killed the Dinosaurs phased it when you look at it in retrospect.

And, to quote George Carlin... "The planet's not fucked... the people are!"
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Post by GlockandRoll »

Twinsen wrote:Good luck on getting the s--t to work. At the very least, chasing these ideas will unearth more basic ways of getting plain gas cars to use less gas. I doubt HHO will ever work, but hey, they might come up with some great tweaks.
You doubt it will work becuase you refuse to understand the basic concept.
You think some basic law of physics is being violated, and therefor are unable to open your mind to reason.

Here are the facts:
* You can generate HHO from distilled water with an added electrolyte.
* HHO is immensely combustible.
* You can generate HHO on demand in a car.
* The IC engine can use HHO to DRAMATICALLY enhance the combustion processes.
* If you DRAMATICALLY enhance the combustion processes, less petrol fuel is consumed for the same given power output.

If after all my posts on the topic, you still do not understand this, then I simply lack the communication skills necessary to relay this information.

If you refused to understand this... then discussing it with you is moot.
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Post by GlockandRoll »

TROOPER wrote: Point #5 is also wrong. "Going Green" may undoubtedly have some altruistic components to it, but I am very confident in saying that it is a trend that has much more to do with capturing market share and earning dollars for most corporations as opposed to any actual die-hard attempt to lessen the environmental impact of any particular industry.
See... sometimes trooper, you are just plain full of s--t.

Here's proof that you do not know what you are talking about in Pt #5:
Take a look at VMware virtualization. This is not a "trend" as you say, this is a MAJOR paradigm shift in computing and going virtual is now changing the way people are looking at computing. This is becuase of data-center sprawl, which is a huge percentage of our domestic power consumption.

In fact, every single one of the fortune 100 companies, in addition to almost every single fortune 1000 company is adopting this power/environment saving technology - yet no legislation has been passed.

This is all about lowering power consumption and saving money on data center cooling costs and CO2 output.
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Post by Twinsen »

GNR, I understand your concept. I believe it will never be accomplished. Good luck anyway.
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Post by GlockandRoll »

Twinsen wrote:GNR, I understand your concept. I believe it will never be accomplished. Good luck anyway.
It's not my concept, you need to see it work 1st hand - instead of just assuming the world is flat.
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Post by Blaubart »

GlockandRoll wrote:You wouldn't consider them reliable sources of information - even thought(sic) they may be poised to win the X-prize... REALLY???? Umm.. ok.
I love it when spelling nazis make mistakes while they're pointing fingers at other people.

And I should suck their dicks, ignore their beers and their slurring, and bow down before their third "guest fuel" because they "May be poised to win the X-prize..."?
GlockandRoll wrote:And what, exactly, do you consider "(i)ndisputable evidence"; for the sake of F--k man - it's pretty obvious that CO2 levels are at an all time high and the climate is changing... yet that gets 'un-disputed' all the time?
First, since you have your panties in a wad over it:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/undisputable

What would I like to see? Oh, I don't know, maybe running a tankful of gas through an unmodified engine on a dyno, and then running a tankful of gas through a modified engine on a dyno and comparing the results. That would be a good start. Not just saying that a friend of yours has seen great results since installing the device on his vehicle.

Yes, I know CO2 levels are at an all time high, and I do believe that we should start changing our consumption habits and investing in renewable energy sources gradually now, rather than drastically later. "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" or whatever you want to call it aside, we just can't continue consuming non-renewable resources at the rate we are today. But then again, my post didn't even go there, but you certainly took the opportunity to make assumptions and attacks.
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Post by GlockandRoll »

Blaubart wrote: What would I like to see? Oh, I don't know, maybe running a tankful of gas through an unmodified engine on a dyno, and then running a tankful of gas through a modified engine on a dyno and comparing the results. That would be a good start. Not just saying that a friend of yours has seen great results since installing the device on his vehicle.
Why not just look at what NASA discovered, and published in technical note D-8487 back in the 70's?
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi. ... 016170.pdf
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Post by Blaubart »

Here are some of the things I gathered from that article:

They were using steam reformation of methanol, not electrolysis of water. Methanol contains energy, water does not. Also, they were using the heat from the exhaust to create the steam, which is more efficient than placing an additional load on the engine to produce electricity used to perform electrolysis of water.

NOx levels increased when you add reformed hydrogen to the fuel.

Hydrocarbon emissions increase when you add reformed hydrogen to the fuel.

I'm still waiting for some good evidence to back your claims of astronomical increases in fuel efficiency.
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Post by Mongo »

I can't believe I'm allowing my self to be dragged into another thread with G&R discussing scientific results/theories.
GlockandRoll wrote: I think it's pretty obvious that CO2 levels are at an all time high - going back more than 600K years. So, dismissing this - when we know it to be fact - does wreak of nonsense.
Once again you make statements w/o even knowing what you are talking about. Stop listening the the Global Warming allarmest drivel and actually look at the science and the data that has been generated.

Has the temperature gone up? yup.
Is it due to CO2? nope, the sea releases CO2 as the temperature rises, there is always a lag in CO2 concentration behind temperature increases so therefore how can a increase in temperature be due to an increase in CO2 after the temperature rise? This has been proven in the ice core records. Even Al "I invented the internet" Gore's graphs in his presentations show this.

So what causes temperatures rises? mainly the sun
Image

Image

History of Atmospheric CO2 through geological time (past 550 million years: from Berner, Science, 1997). The parameter RCO2 is defined as the ratio of the mass of CO2 in the atmosphere at some time in the past to that at present (with a pre-industrial value of 300 parts per million). The heavier line joining small squares represents the best estimate of past atmospheric CO2 levels based on geochemical modeling and updated to have the effect of land plants on weathering introduced 380 to 350 million years ago. The shaded area encloses the approximate range of error of the modeling based on sensitivity analysis. Vertical bars represent independent estimates of CO2 level based on the study of ancient soils.
Image
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