ARMS vs. Troy court battle decided

ArevaloSOCOM · Post by **ArevaloSOCOM** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:39 pm

From the ARMS website: http://www.armsmounts.com/default.asp?mode=news

Date: Friday, July 17, 2009
Title: A.R.M.S. Inc. wins Trade Secret and Breach of Fiduciary Duty Lawsuit against Stephen P. Troy, Jr. and Troy Industries, Inc..
Sub-title: Jury in United States District Court for the District of Massachusetts awards A.R.M.S., Inc. $1.8M in weapons accessory trial.

(West Bridgewater, MA) - A federal court jury awarded A.R.M.S. Inc., a designer of accessories and attachments for small arms weapons for 30 years, in excess of $1.8 million in damages in a lawsuit alleging theft of trade secrets and breach of fiduciary duty against Stephen P. Troy, Jr. and his company, Troy Industries, Inc., of Lee, MA. In the lawsuit, originally filed on August 23, 2007, A.R.M.S. alleged that its former employee of seven months, Stephen Troy, who had held a position of trust and confidence with the company, had stolen A.R.M.S.'s trade secrets for a proprietary handguard system for use on M-4/M-16/AR-15 rifles and incorporated those trade secrets in a competing modular, free-float railed handguard system that attached to the barrel nut and that was being offered and sold by Troy Industries, commencing after he was fired from A.R.M.S.. On June 26, 2009, after a two-week trial in the Massachusetts Federal District Court, a nine member federal jury returned a verdict against Stephen P. Troy and Troy Industries, finding them liable for misappropriation of trade secrets and breach of fiduciary duty. Richard Swan, the president of A.R.M.S.Â® Inc., said, "We are pleased that the jury upheld our trade secret rights and determined that our former employee and his company should not profit from the theft of our trade secrets." Amongst others, witnesses for A.R.M.S. included two representatives of the U.S. military. Other issues in the case remain pending before the Court.

A.R.M.S.'s trial counsel was Craig M. Scott and Christine K. Bush of Scott & Bush Ltd., a Providence, RI-based firm that specializes in complex business and intellectual property litigation.

Atlantic Research Marketing Systems (A.R.M.S.Â®) Inc.

Atlantic Research Marketing Systems (A.R.M.S.Â®) Inc., with more than 40 National Stock Numbers [NSN's] in service to the U.S., and foreign militaries worldwide, specializes in advancing the capabilities of small arms, crew served, and anti-armor weapons in function, reliability and accuracy. A.R.M.S.Â® also designs and manufactures a variety of weapon handguards and advanced sight system mounts for day and night vision equipment including thermal and laser. Expertise in all types of small arms weaponry, munitions, and accessories provides A.R.M.S.'s clients a source of fast and reliable problem solving services in engineering, research and development, and product reliability. The company, based in West Bridgewater, MA, develops and markets a large number of patented products through its worldwide network of dealers and distributors, including scope and laser mounts, handguards, folding sights, adaptors and other accessories. For more information, please visit www.armsmounts.com.

continuity · Post by **continuity** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:06 pm

Crap....and I like Troy Ind. stuff.

Somehow I feel dirty now.............

dhoganjr · Post by **dhoganjr** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:11 pm

Didn't Troy sue Samsom a few years ago for something similar? I believe Troy won that suit. What comes around goes around...

Post by **silencertalk** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:21 pm

http://dockets.justia.com/search?q=ATLA ... EMS%2C+INC.

Post by **silencertalk** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:27 pm

I don't understand the attraction of Troy sights or rails. Lots of people like them, but I fail to understand how they can compare to KAC sights or rails.

ArevaloSOCOM · Post by **ArevaloSOCOM** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:32 pm

rsilvers wrote:I don't understand the attraction of Troy sights or rails. Lots of people like them, but I fail to understand how they can compare to KAC sights or rails.

Same reason Tac 65's are popular.

PRICE.

Omega_556 · Post by **Omega_556** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:39 pm

rsilvers wrote:I don't understand the attraction of Troy sights or rails. Lots of people like them, but I fail to understand how they can compare to KAC sights or rails.

I do not like the Troy rails, but I do like their sights very much.

JohnInNH · Post by **JohnInNH** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:56 pm

I Love my Troy rear sight. I have the 7" (carbine) tactical handguard. It is a 2pc unit that does NOT require a gunsmith installation. MRF-DI
...

They work VERY well. The price was right too. To bad I did not know the history... I do not see what they stole. When I compare designs the attachments are much different... but who knows. They may have had to pull the offending system.

The set I got went on very easily.. They are tight and I can even mount a sight 1/2 on the receiver and 1/2 on the handguard.

The ARMS rail is good enough to mount your red dot on and have it hold zero.. that is saying a lot. That won't work n the Troy system I have as they do move a little and would shift your group.

This has my back up rear sight too. Lots of clearance.. easy push button release.

Post by **silencertalk** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:56 pm

I prefer KAC sights, then ARMS. Troy would be in the top 5 though, maybe. I realize it is subtle personal preference and there are many good choices.

As for this case, he may have had a specific agreement. Otherwise I am not sure why he would be expected to forget what he learned about manufacturing.

Omega_556 · Post by **Omega_556** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:13 pm

I had an ARMS #40 & an ARMS #40L; I had them on a Noveske, an LMT, and a Colt. To zero my carbines at 50/200y I had to unscrew the front sight post to the point where it was at or above the wings of the front sight base on all three carbines. All three carbines have the proper height front sight base, all properly zero with a Colt carry handle, and all properly zero with Troy rear sights.

Granted this is not a huge sample population, but it soured me to the ARMS sights.

Mongo · Post by **Mongo** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:19 pm

Well LaPoo is being sued by ARMS as well. ARMS just might have a banner year for profits

tmix · Post by **tmix** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:32 am

Mongo wrote:Well LaPoo is being sued by ARMS as well. ARMS just might have a banner year for profits

Speaking of LaDouche...
We received one of his billet lowers for a customer the other day. There's a great big outline of Texas engraved on one side. (Remember the Alamo!) However, the lowers are actually made in Oregon by another company. Way to keep money in the state, Mark.

colblaster · Post by **colblaster** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:09 pm

Troy sights are way better than the KAC folding sights.

Really no comparison.

Post by **silencertalk** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:48 pm

colblaster wrote:Troy sights are way better than the KAC folding sights.

Really no comparison.

You are going to have to give me a reason why I would want those clunky Troy back-up sights on my rifle over the much lighter and better looking KAC sights.

Omega_556 · Post by **Omega_556** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:05 pm

rsilvers wrote:You are going to have to give me a reason why I would want those clunky Troy back-up sights on my rifle over the much lighter and better looking KAC sights.

The KAC sights are not much lighter.

Troy rear sight is 1.7oz
KAC 300m rear sight is 1.6oz
KAC 200-600m rear sight is 2.0oz

Jonas · Post by **Jonas** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:54 pm

dhoganjr wrote:Didn't Troy sue Samsom a few years ago for something similar? I believe Troy won that suit. What comes around goes around...

Yup, Samson Arms.

Several years ago, there were pics posted on ARF of a Troy suppressor that looked very similar to the Ops Inc brake and collar setup. Maybe ARMS isn't the only company to have their design ganked by Troy?

66427vette · Post by **66427vette** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:03 pm

rsilvers wrote:I don't understand the attraction of Troy sights or rails. Lots of people like them, but I fail to understand how they can compare to KAC sights or rails.

ding. you hit that square on the head!

rob_s · Post by **rob_s** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:05 am

I don't personally use the Troy rails, and don't recommend them, but I understand the attraction to them based on price and ease of installation.

The sights are another matter. Best folding rear sight I've used. It's robust enough to use as a standalone rear sight, locks in the up position for same use, offers both apertures in a same-plane configuration.. there are cheaper, there may be lighter, but I haven't seen any that are better or offer more.

I'm not quite as impressed with what I saw of their fixed rear, but I would like to get ahold of one of their fixed fronts.

Post by **silencertalk** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:47 am

On the Ruger rifle, they say RUGER on the front and rear in big white letters, which makes me like them less considering the rifle should only say Ruger on the receiver and not on every part.

I am sorry if I was wrong about the weight. I don't own them and went by the size which I should not have done.

eric10mm · Post by **eric10mm** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:41 am

OMG!!! That other tire company made their tires round just like ours. LET'S SUE THEM!!

Omega_556 · Post by **Omega_556** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:00 am

rsilvers wrote:On the Ruger rifle, they say RUGER on the front and rear in big white letters, which makes me like them less considering the rifle should only say Ruger on the receiver and not on every part.

Noveske & LaRue also private label the Troy sights.

I've heard the LWRC does too on the M6A3, the Troy rear is included with that rifle, but I have not seen that first hand.

SC-Texas · Post by **SC-Texas** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:40 am

Interesting.

Anyone know what the basis of the suit was?

Non-compete?

Post by **silencertalk** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:42 am

SC-Texas wrote:Interesting.

Anyone know what the basis of the suit was?

Non-compete?

I assume it had to be something like that. I cannot believe it on the face value of the press release.

504ranger · Post by **504ranger** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:47 pm

LWRC does include their own private label Troy BUIS.

rob_s · Post by **rob_s** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:13 pm

I believe there are also BCM logo Troy sights.