Car dealers and non-factory original parts

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Car dealers and non-factory original parts

Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:21 pm

I am shocked that two Subaru dealers are using non-Subaru parts without disclosing it. I mean, why do dealer service if you are not getting factory parts?

Two dealers quoted me for brake jobs and their prices were much less than the mail order cost of factory original parts.
Last edited by silencertalk on Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Arkady » Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:24 pm

I ran into that problem with a Toyota dealer a few years back. Nice of them to void my warranty for me :evil: Fortunately, I never had an issue with them, and didn't notice the aftermarket parts until a couple of years later, once the warranty had long since expired.

Did they confirm that they were using non-OEM parts, or is that an educated guess based on the price discrepancy?

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Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:28 pm

I did not call back and ask them to confirm but their complete job (parts and labor) was $1000 less than just the internet cost of the parts.

I saw no point in asking them as if they said they were aftermarket parts I would not use them. If they said they were factory parts I would not believe them.

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Post by no4mk1t » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:53 pm

It's quite common for dealers to use aftermarket parts for non warranty repairs. The dealership I worked at did not use OEM brake pads and shoes for instance because no one wanted to pay 3X the price of NAPA pads/shoes. The common repair parts we used at the time were Ford Authorized Remanufactured. Which meant they were made by one of the big reman outfits that also made reman parts for the aftermarket.
Most people don't question the origin of the parts....they just want their car fixed.
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Post by gunn24 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:01 pm

Theres no reason you can't do it yourself and save alot. If you're putting on new pads and rotors its a very easy job.

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Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:09 pm

When I just want my car fixed cheap with unknown parts, I go to the local gas station, Midas, etc. When I go to the dealer, it is to get factory parts and the experience of people who work on one brand of car.

Really I am shocked to hear this is common and undisclosed. I will try to remember to ask from now on, but it may be hard for me to remember since it is counter intuitive for me they would do that.

I mean if I went to a Harley dealer, would I not be pissed if I found out they used aftermarket parts?

Looking back at least the other two dealers were not charging the same price as if they were factory parts.

This is like putting a Pakistani b

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Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:10 pm

When I just want my car fixed cheap with unknown parts, I go to the local gas station, Midas, etc. When I go to the dealer, it is to get factory parts and the experience of people who work on one brand of car.

Really I am shocked to hear this is common and undisclosed. I will try to remember to ask from now on, but it may be hard for me to remember since it is counter intuitive for me they would do that.

I mean if I went to a Harley dealer, would I not be pissed if I found out they used aftermarket parts?

Looking back at least the other two dealers were not charging the same price as if they were factory parts.

This is like going to an HK dealer and them using Pakistani parts.

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Post by jupiterdraft » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:28 pm

Robert's post about going to the gas station for repairs got my thinking. Here in Florida (at least) they have systematically removed mechanics from gas stations; only quicky marts anymore. I don't know if it is a legal / law thing or if it is just a money making thing.

Anybody else notice this?
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Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:38 pm

For some reason WRX STi rotors are 4x the price of standard WRX rotors.

I know they are larger but 4x the price seems like a big difference.

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Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:51 pm

I read this:

http://essex.sharpdot.cc/learning-cente ... brake-pads

Would a factory high performance car like an M5, CTS-V, Corvette, etc - come with organic pads or would they be semi-metallic?

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Post by BWT » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:56 pm

rsilvers wrote:I read this:

http://essex.sharpdot.cc/learning-cente ... brake-pads

Would a factory high performance car like an M5, CTS-V, Corvette, etc - come with organic pads or would they be semi-metallic?
I guaran-damn-tee that's why my brakes squeek at times...

Semi-Metallic brake pads. I should go punch that man in the face.

ETA: Back story is, I got my brakes replaced about a year and a half ago. They now squeek at times, I got over it, it always bothered me slightly, but, after going back to the shop that I went to originally twice and speaking to them, they said they could never get them to squeek.

I figured they worked, I don't have enough time to keep screwing around, and I'm not going to go pay another mechanic's shop to have a look at them, because they didn't perform the work, and I expected them to honor their work.

Now is anything functionally wrong? No, but, I probably got some generic brake pads and not factory parts, and they just never told me that. Instead they told they could never duplicate the issue.

This is the same reason I started doing more car maintenance myself, after finding out they use a air pressurized drill to tighten down the oil filter on my car, and piece of crap filter, etc.

You're supposed to hand tighten as you might strip the threads if you over tighten it, and it took me 5 minutes to finally pry the filter loose by hand after I went to a Subaru Dealer.

(Interesting we're both dealing with the same manufacturer)
Last edited by BWT on Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:00 pm

Well the article says that basically if you complain about squeak you are not hard-core.

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Post by TypeR632 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:12 pm

My dad bought my sister a porsche boxster when she was 16. Then when they take it to the dealer for an oil change and they charge something like $200 or $250 he gets mad!? I told him what did you think it was going to cost it's a porsche. I got a damn honda accord when I turned 16.
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Post by BWT » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:15 pm

rsilvers wrote:Well the article says that basically if you complain about squeak you are not hard-core.
Right,

But here's what concerns me.

It seems that other than Compressibility Organics are better, they have a lower Max Temperature, which, I don't know enough about brakes to know that Organics have an low enough Max Temperature to be concerned over.

But Semi-Metallic have higher rotor wear, produce more dust, squeek more, it also has worse Cold Bite and they're "high" cost, where as organic are "low" cost.

It has better heat resistance going for it.

I don't recall what I paid for the brakes, but, I'll definitely consider doing it myself next time.... Maybe not, Brakes are one of those things that you rely pretty heavily on, but I might buy my own parts.

I'm curious what kind of Service life they have comparatively, but if Semi-Metallics have a better service life, but have higher wear on Rotors, would it be worth it just to replace organics more frequently (maybe) and not have to worry about replacing rotors as frequently?

Somebody'll chime in.

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Post by Outsydlooknin75 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:33 pm

Just because its a factory part does not mean that it is a better part than the aftermarket part.

Now on rotors and such I would junk the stockers for a set of aftermarkets in a heart beat but I would run some Cryoed rotors and a set of EBC pads as well. ESPECIALLY on a performance car.

Slotted rotors YES, Cross drilled rotors NO. The slotted rotors allow for the gas build up between the pads and the rotors to bleed off and not form a cushion between the pad and rotor. Dimpled rotors are ok, cross drilled rotors have a tendency to crack under excessive use.

And if you go with EBC pads follow the break in procedure that comes with the pads. The Pads themselves are coated with a material to help break in the rotors and pads evenly.

Most of the cheap aftermarket rotors are cheap cause of the steel they use is cheap, and the cooling vanes are usually 1 to 5 less on the aftermarket's. Cheapies also have a tendency to warp easily and provide inconsistent braking.
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Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:34 pm

I want to know what is standard on factory high performance cars like the M5 and CTS-V. If it is organic than that settles it. If they use semi-metallic then it is harder to know what to do.

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Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:39 pm

Yeah, I made the call earlier today but I probably should have gone aftermarket if I can pick the parts. I was caught off guard with two dealers using aftermarket of unknown origin and not even disclosing it. Also I was uneducated as to what to look for. Thirdly, if I left without doing the work I would not only get a failed inspection sticker but also a diagnostic charge.

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Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:45 pm

no4mk1t wrote:It's quite common for dealers to use aftermarket parts for non warranty repairs. The dealership I worked at did not use OEM brake pads and shoes for instance because no one wanted to pay 3X the price of NAPA pads/shoes. The common repair parts we used at the time were Ford Authorized Remanufactured. Which meant they were made by one of the big reman outfits that also made reman parts for the aftermarket.
Most people don't question the origin of the parts....they just want their car fixed.
Those are at least factory authorized.

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Post by BWT » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:47 pm

Just because its a factory part does not mean that it is a better part than the aftermarket part.
Also depends on the Company.

I just found out I can get Subaru Brake pads (front and back) for about 140-180$.

http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_par ... l=Forester

http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_par ... Front+Pads

I wonder how credible the site is, I'd have to check them out, but I could swear I paid 500-600$. Which, labor and all, I could understand maybe 150-200$, but that's 75% labor, almost, then again, it was sometime ago.

But, I'll put it in perspective, I asked for a rear windshield wiper replacement blade, they quoted me 70-90$, because it was a "custom part" went into Wal Mart a few weeks later, just for grins saw some windshield wiper blades... it was like $19.99 for a 15'' Rain-X Blade.

I'm mechanically inclined, and I'll do some car stuff, and leave the rest to professionals, but, this stuff, really isn't that hard...

Anyway, we'll wait for the jury on Organic versus Semi-Metallic.

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Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:53 pm

If they resurfaced your rotors also I could see labor being $300. You figure they will just bill four hours for it.

$240 for my STi pads! That is just front. So $480 front and rear!

http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_par ... artid=1398

On a Subaru forum someone recommended these:

http://www.turninconcepts.com/product_i ... cts_id=398

They are $90 for all four. I am a little worried about the need for 'bedding.'

So I could have gone aftermarket and paid about $700 for supposedly decent parts and labor. There is some risk though. I get to the garage and the parts don't fit or something. Instead I am paying $950 and that is with just using my existing rotors with resurfacing (though they said if they end up too thin they will get me new ones at no additional charge).

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Post by BWT » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:01 pm

rsilvers wrote:If they resurfaced your rotors also I could see labor being $300. You figure they will just bill four hours for it.

$240 for my STi pads! That is just front. So $480 front and rear!

http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_par ... artid=1398

On a Subaru forum someone recommended these:

http://www.turninconcepts.com/product_i ... cts_id=398

They are $90 for all four.
WE HAVE BEEN DUPED SIR, DUPED!

They did resurface the rotors, so maybe I didn't get taken too badly, but I bet I don't have Subaru Brake Pads on my car.

I'd be willing to bet I don't.

Definitely puts things in perspective.

ETA: As long as you buy the correct parts, you could hypothetically if the new parts don't fit, re-install your old ones and drive down to the Service center and have them install it.

At least you'll be paying less mark up on parts, and have a learning experience.

All depends on how much your time is worth to you, and if you think it's worth doing it yourself.

I'm going to at least look into doing stuff myself from here on out, see how feasible it is and go from there.

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Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:11 pm

$500 to $600 is totally normal at a dealer for any typical passenger car.

Mine was more cause the STi parts are between 2x and 4x the price.

Four rotors and four sets of pads, original factory, for my car are $2000 retail!

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Post by BWT » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:27 pm

rsilvers wrote:$500 to $600 is totally normal at a dealer for any typical passenger car.

Mine was more cause the STi parts are between 2x and 4x the price.

Four rotors and four sets of pads, original factory, for my car are $2000 retail!
Alright that's insane. My price was a little high, or so it appeared, but at least appears to be the standard raping and pillaging rate (kidding), but that's extremely questionable.

If I was you, if you want them to do it, I'd buy the parts, myself, and go talk with them, or have a dialogue with them before you purchased the parts, and see where that gets you.

Depends on how much cane you want to raise. Which at this point, is very justifiable.

Subaru's aren't exactly a novelty where you live either, here in the South, I wouldn't say they're rare, but I wouldn't say they're common either, there's only one Dealer in the City (it technically is a city) of about 500,000 approximately, but up north, with the weather (as I've heard anyway) there's much higher demand, and many more dealers.

Was the price consistently that high across the board?

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Post by gunn24 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:34 pm

Its been my experience with rotors that got extremely hot and needed to be turned are only good for light or moderate braking afterward as the rotor was turned at room tempature, heat em up and they'll become warped again.

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Post by silencertalk » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:35 pm

Regardless of local dealers, the lowest internet price for the parts (real Subaru) is about $1600 total.

I cannot see any local dealer charging less for parts than the lowest online price I can find.

The two dealers who had lower prices were obviously not using Subaru parts.

If I wanted to not use Subaru parts, I would not use a Subaru dealer to put them in and certainly would not let them pick the parts.

So if I could do it over, I would order carefully researched and specifically chosen aftermarket parts and then have a recommended independent mechanic put them in (and I would expect to pay $300 for the labor).

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