H1N1 vaccine

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Are you going to get it?

Yes
20
18%
No
90
82%
 
Total votes: 110

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Twinsen
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Post by Twinsen » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:11 pm

Last time I got the flu (maybe only time) was when I got my last flu shot. Screw it.

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Tyris
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Post by Tyris » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:49 pm

rsilvers wrote:Meanwhile, you passed it on to several other people.
This reminds me of a strange conversation I had with a friend in highschool.
We asked him "what would you do if you got aids?" His reply "man, I be bonin' niggers in the ass."

I didnt know quite what to say then, but in retrospect I suppose it was his way of saying some men just want to watch the world burn.

-T

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Post by MicroGuy » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:52 pm

I'm going to get the regular flu vaccine, and supposedly, that should pretty well cover me also. I'm going to use a lot of hand sanitizer. But I just don't trust/need it. I'll either suffer and or die, or won't get it.

If there's a bad outbreak in my area, I'll just stay home and live off the food I have stored.
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MicroGuy
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Post by MicroGuy » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:02 pm

rsilvers wrote:The seasonal vaccine reduces infection by 70% of something that kills 40,000 people a year in the US (3x as many as people that are murdered). Personally -- you are all insane for not getting it. The downside is $25 and side effects that are much less likely than the benefit.

And if you are afraid of the shot itself -- that is very lame. It does not hurt.
For those that are "afraid" of the shot, it's not the actual shot, like getting stuck they're afraid of. It's the possible side effects of it. I think one of them, for kids anyway, is autism? Stuff like that.

There's also a near government mandate that you get one, that's tossing a lot of people off.
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Post by Hush » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:24 pm

MG wrote:
If there's a bad outbreak in my area, I'll just stay home and live off the food I have stored.
Now that's the smart way of doing it, I don't go anywhere anymore since my legs have gone bad.
I just drive the wife to the food store and sit in the truck, I only am concerned if the kids and grand kids come over and may be sick, in fact I think I will call them and tell them in advance if your sick or sneezing stay home.
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Post by Crosshair » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:25 pm

rsilvers wrote:Yes, you will survive it. Meanwhile, you passed it on to several other people. The vaccine does not just protect you, but it protects the kids and old people you are near - as well as people at work.
As I pointed out before, I get the Flu anyway even with the shot. It's the only illness that requires my immune system to do any real work and the only illness that really takes me out, though for only a couple of days at the most.

The onset for me is quick and the only people who would be exposed are people who come to ask me if I'm feeling OK as I puke and poop at the same time. When I get the Flu, I'm not going anywhere. I've got enough flex time as it is.
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Post by YugoRPK » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:29 pm

MicroGuy wrote:
rsilvers wrote:The seasonal vaccine reduces infection by 70% of something that kills 40,000 people a year in the US (3x as many as people that are murdered). Personally -- you are all insane for not getting it. The downside is $25 and side effects that are much less likely than the benefit.

And if you are afraid of the shot itself -- that is very lame. It does not hurt.
For those that are "afraid" of the shot, it's not the actual shot, like getting stuck they're afraid of. It's the possible side effects of it. I think one of them, for kids anyway, is autism? Stuff like that.

There's also a near government mandate that you get one, that's tossing a lot of people off.
Parents become aware of their childrens Autism about the time the children get their immunizations. Saying the immunizations caused the autism is like saying the immunizations cause everyone elses children to speak in complete sentences and stop wearing diapers.
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Post by Black » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:38 pm

Another one of those lucky military guys who doesn't have a choice. :)
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Post by brainneeded » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:54 am

JohnInNH wrote:
brainneeded wrote:already got the swine flu, what do i need the vaccine for? :evil:

that was a terrible week, and i'm still recovering.
Sorry to hear you got the Swine Flu before you had a chance to get the vaccine for it. Are you SURE it was the H1N1 confirmed by a blood test.

If so wold you please tell us how it was for you. Symptoms, where it settled if it did, why you thought it was the swine flu and not the seasonal flu?....etc.

I have heard TamaFlu (sp) is ineffective

Did you need to go to the MD?

I hope you get back to 100% soon.
well it's merely speculation on my part, since i was too laid up to actually visit the doctor. i'm on an HMO i can only see one physician without being charged out the ass, and he was booked for 2 weeks, but i have never had the flu where everything was that bad, i had diarrhea for about 5 or 6 days to the extent where it was just 100% liquid (yeah yeah tmi i know). and everything came so quick and with such veracity, i am inclined to believe it was h1n1.

i was fine up until 9/23, then that thursday i left work early (approx. 230 pm) after a few coughs, and by the time i got home i was completely laid up, i slept for almost 20 hours straight. completely lost my appetite and the diarrhea was terrible. i didn't eat for about 3 days, and the following week i had a hard time eating more than half a bowl of rice. mind you i'm a big guy about 210 5'7". i slept for about 3 days straight, and then the cough came, and it was terrible. i ended up taking a mixture of mucinex D and vicodin (similar drug comp to prescription strength cough syrup which i didn't have access to), which was enough to calm my cough to where i could sleep.

like i said, it may have been the traditional seasonal flu, but if it was, it was absolutely the worst case of the flu i have ever had. every time i've ever had the flu, i was at least semi functional, but this time i was almost completely out of it for a week, i took off work for a week and a half, and i only went to class for the sake of attendence, i almost fainted walking to class a few times. today, 10/08 i'm much better, but still coughing and there is still sputum in my cough and i'm only about 85% even though i recovered, or began recovering, this week. if this was the normal flu that just happened to catch me at a weak moment, i hope i never catch swine flu.

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Post by YugoRPK » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:05 am

brainneeded wrote:
JohnInNH wrote:
brainneeded wrote:already got the swine flu, what do i need the vaccine for? :evil:

that was a terrible week, and i'm still recovering.
Sorry to hear you got the Swine Flu before you had a chance to get the vaccine for it. Are you SURE it was the H1N1 confirmed by a blood test.

If so wold you please tell us how it was for you. Symptoms, where it settled if it did, why you thought it was the swine flu and not the seasonal flu?....etc.

I have heard TamaFlu (sp) is ineffective

Did you need to go to the MD?

I hope you get back to 100% soon.
well it's merely speculation on my part, since i was too laid up to actually visit the doctor. i'm on an HMO i can only see one physician without being charged out the ass, and he was booked for 2 weeks, but i have never had the flu where everything was that bad, i had diarrhea for about 5 or 6 days to the extent where it was just 100% liquid (yeah yeah tmi i know). and everything came so quick and with such veracity, i am inclined to believe it was h1n1.

i was fine up until 9/23, then that thursday i left work early (approx. 230 pm) after a few coughs, and by the time i got home i was completely laid up, i slept for almost 20 hours straight. completely lost my appetite and the diarrhea was terrible. i didn't eat for about 3 days, and the following week i had a hard time eating more than half a bowl of rice. mind you i'm a big guy about 210 5'7".

like i said, it may have been the traditional seasonal flu, but if it was, it was absolutely the worst case of the flu i have ever had. every time i've ever had the flu, i was at least semi functional, but this time i was almost completely out of it for a week, i took off work for a week and a half, and i only went to class for the sake of attendence, i almost fainted walking to class a few times. today, 10/08 i'm much better, but still coughing and there is still sputum in my cough and i'm only about 85% even though i recovered, or began recovering, this week. if this was the normal flu that just happened to catch me at a weak moment, i hope i never catch swine flu.
What you are describing is not influenza. Gastroenteritis maybe even mononucleosis or even a few different forms of food poisoning . Influenza generally does not cause diarrhea or severe stomach problems. Its an upper respiratory tract disease. Influenza will cause dry coughing, moderate to severe body and head pain , fast and high fever and a total loss of appetite but true influenza seldom has digestive problems that go along with it. A lot of "Flu" is something else.
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Post by steve7478 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:46 am

tuckerrnr1 wrote:Two words: Immune system.

Build one. Play in the dirt, eat a bug, lick a public pay phone. Darwin was right.
exactly how I feel.

31 years old and had the flu only a few times. Once real bad. Completely blanked out 3 whole days. Although the NyQuil might of had something to do with that. :D
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Post by JohnInNH » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:48 am

http://www.cdc.gov/H1N1flu/qa.htm General info
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/ interesting #'s and info & charts

2009 H1N1 Flu

What is 2009 H1N1 (swine flu)?
2009 H1N1 (sometimes called “swine fluâ€
Long distance, the next best thing to being there!

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Post by silencertalk » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:58 am

MicroGuy wrote:For those that are "afraid" of the shot, it's not the actual shot, like getting stuck they're afraid of. It's the possible side effects of it.
Well I did not mean those people. There are also fully grown people afraid of the needle. Yes, I know it is hard to believe. I can see being afraid of large needles, but the flu shot does not hurt at all.

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Post by silencertalk » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:59 am

Crosshair wrote:As I pointed out before, I get the Flu anyway even with the shot.
There is no way for you to know how much worse it would have been if you had no shot.

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Post by flip » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:18 am

Hell and No

I almost died from flu as a baby so my immune system is very good now, I have never had "the flu" since then. I feel that if people get the flu shot it makes their immune system lazy and thus begins the dependance on having to rely on it to keep you from getting ill. 90% of the flu shot is fear mongering and marketing.

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Post by silencertalk » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:28 am

It does not make your immune system lazy. It builds your immune response by triggering your system to respond just as if you naturally were exposed.

What you had as a kid is not the same as what is going around now.

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Post by flip » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:57 am

rsilvers wrote:It does not make your immune system lazy. It builds your immune response by triggering your system to respond just as if you naturally were exposed.

What you had as a kid is not the same as what is going around now.
I am not a doctor but I believe that if you allow your immune system to do it's job naturally by fighting infection and building up antibodies without the stimulation of a downgraded vaccine yoy will be healthier. Why is it that everyone else around me can get sick "the flu" and I don't? There is no doubt I have been exposed to the virus because I am not a hand wash clean freak every time I touch a keyboard or door handle. I feel my early life illness has made my immune system more able to cope with viral infections and it can kill them before they become full blown symptoms. Just my opinion.

What if the H1N1 strain evolves/mutates halfway through flu season? Does the shot do any good?

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Post by silencertalk » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:03 am

flip wrote:Why is it that everyone else around me can get sick "the flu" and I don't?
You should not use your own experience as a guide in this case because there is no way to divide yourself into 2000 people and have 1000 of you see if you get more sick without the shot and the other 1000 see how you do with it. On large studies, the shot reduces deaths by about 70%.

The fact that you are not getting sick could be based on the level of exposure and your level of immunity. You have no way of knowing that you won't get very sick from the flu next month. It is still likely that the chances of that happening would be significantly less if you got the shot.

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Post by jdj » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:03 am

flip wrote:Hell and No
I feel that if people get the flu shot it makes their immune system lazy and thus begins the dependance on having to rely on it to keep you from getting ill.
Have you done any reading or research on immunology to back that up? The ignorance in this thread is amazing.

I agree that in no way should vaccination be manditory, but people who dislike/distrust the government (including myself) tend to let their feelings overpower their judgement.

As for RSilvers' comment that "they would've just rolled it into the annual flu vaccine, so it's no big deal" - I think you still need informed consent for such things. After all, there was the 1976 guillain barre association with swine flu vaccination.

If you are otherwise healthy and can get it, I would recommend the nasal spray form of both annual and H1N1 flu vaccines over the shot, as it invokes a more physiological immune response, and will not expose you to systemic adjuvants.

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Post by silencertalk » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:07 am

http://www.cdc.gov/FLU/about/qa/nasalspray.htm

I can say one thing.. for people afraid of shots I bet they hurt less than a blast of liquid up your nose.

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Post by silencertalk » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:08 am

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm


How Well Does the Seasonal Flu Vaccine Work?
Questions & Answers
For information about 2009 H1N1 flu, see http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/.
Seasonal Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness
How effective is the seasonal flu vaccine?

How well the seasonal flu vaccine works depends on how well the match is between the seasonal influenza (flu) vaccine and the types of seasonal flu viruses that are circulating that year. Scientists try to predict what strains (types) of flu viruses are most likely to spread and cause illness each year to put into the vaccine. Past studies have shown in years when the vaccine viruses and circulating viruses are well-matched, the vaccine can reduce the chances of getting the flu by 70% to 90% in healthy adults. The vaccine may be somewhat less effective in elderly persons and very young children, but vaccination can still prevent serious complications from the flu.

In healthy adults younger than 65 years of age, the flu vaccine can also prevent lost work days, and keep you from having to see the doctor or using unnecessary antibiotics.
Is the seasonal flu vaccine effective against all types of flu and cold viruses?

The seasonal flu vaccine is your best protection against seasonal flu viruses. However, this year there is a new and very different flu virus spreading worldwide among people called 2009 H1N1 flu. The seasonal flu vaccine will not provide protection against 2009 H1N1 influenza. A 2009 H1N1 vaccine is currently in production. The 2009 H1N1 vaccine is not intended to replace the seasonal flu vaccine – it is intended to be used along-side seasonal flu vaccine.

The seasonal flu vaccine also does not provide protection against non-flu viruses that can cause colds and other respiratory illnesses. It can sometimes be hard to tell the difference between a cold and the flu based on symptoms alone.

The seasonal flu vaccine won't protect you from cold or flu viruses that are already in your body when you get a seasonal flu vaccine. The seasonal flu vaccine takes about two weeks to provide protection from the flu, and it's your best protection to prevent the most common types of flu this season.
Why do I need to get a seasonal flu vaccine every year?

Flu viruses change from year to year, which means two things. First, you can get the flu more than once during your lifetime. The immunity (natural protection that develops against a disease after a person has had that disease) that is built up from having the flu caused by one flu virus strain doesn't always provide protection against newer strains of the flu. Second, a seasonal flu vaccine made against flu viruses going around last year may not protect against the newer viruses. That is why the flu vaccine is updated to include current viruses every year.

Because of these reasons, a new seasonal flu vaccine is needed each year.
Does getting a seasonal flu vaccine early in the season mean that I will not be protected later in the season?

Flu vaccination provides protection against the influenza strains contained in the vaccine that will last for the whole season. Vaccination can begin as soon as vaccine is available. Studies do not show a benefit of receiving more than one dose of vaccine during a flu season, even among elderly persons with weakened immune systems.
Does the seasonal flu vaccine work the same for everyone?

The seasonal flu vaccine is the single best way to prevent seasonal flu, and vaccination is the main tool used to protect people from seasonal influenza. A number of studies have shown that the seasonal flu vaccine works, but how well the vaccine works can change from year to year and vary among different groups of people. The ability of the seasonal flu vaccine to protect a person depends on at least two things: 1) the age and health of the person getting the vaccine, and 2) the similarity or "match" between the virus strains in the vaccine and those being spread in the community.

Vaccine effectiveness is not 100%, and some people can still get the flu. For instance, some older people and people with certain chronic illnesses might develop less immunity than healthy young adults after vaccination. However, even for these high-risk individuals, the seasonal flu vaccine still can provide protection against getting severe complications from seasonal flu.
How effective is the seasonal flu vaccine in the elderly?

Among elderly persons not living in chronic-care facilities (such as nursing homes) and those persons with long-term (chronic) medical conditions (such as asthma, diabetes, or heart disease), the seasonal flu shot is 30%-70% effective in preventing hospitalization for pneumonia (a lung infection) and influenza. In past studies among elderly nursing home residents, the seasonal flu shot was most effective in preventing severe illness and complications that may follow flu (like pneumonia), and deaths related to the flu. In this population, the shot can be 50%-60% effective in preventing hospitalization or pneumonia, and 80% effective in preventing death from the flu.

Because persons aged 65 years and older are at high risk for serious complications from seasonal flu, it also is important that people who live with or care for those at high risk for serious complications get a seasonal flu vaccination.
How effective is the seasonal flu vaccine in children?

Because children younger than 5 years of age are at increased risk of severe flu illnesses, children 6-59 months and the household contacts and caregivers of children 0-59 months are recommended to get the seasonal flu vaccine every year. Children younger than 6 months of age are most at risk for having complications from seasonal flu. However, they are too young to get the seasonal flu vaccine. To protect these infants, it is very important that their household members and out-of-home caregivers be vaccinated against seasonal flu.

The seasonal flu vaccine can prevent 66% or more influenza infections in young children, with even higher estimates for older children, when the vaccine strains are well-matched to the flu viruses causing illness. Vaccinating close contacts of children can also help decrease children’s risk of getting the flu.
Besides vaccination, how can people protect themselves against seasonal flu?

Getting the seasonal flu vaccine each year is the best way to prevent seasonal flu. Antiviral drugs are an important second line of defense against the flu; these drugs must be prescribed by a doctor. In addition, good health habits, such as covering your cough and washing your hands, can help prevent the spread of flu and other respiratory illnesses.

For information about selecting the viruses in the seasonal flu vaccine, visit http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/va ... irusqa.htm.

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Post by flip » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:13 am

rsilvers wrote:
flip wrote:Why is it that everyone else around me can get sick "the flu" and I don't?
You should not use your own experience as a guide in this case because there is no way to divide yourself into 2000 people and have 1000 of you see if you get more sick without the shot and the other 1000 see how you do with it. On large studies, the shot reduces deaths by about 70%.

The fact that you are not getting sick could be based on the level of exposure and your level of immunity. You have no way of knowing that you won't get very sick from the flu next month. It is still likely that the chances of that happening would be significantly less if you got the shot.
The question was not "Do you think you should get the H1N1 vaccine" it was "Are you going to get the H1N1" I responded "no" and gave my reasons why, again I am not a doctor so I base my reasoning for not getting it on my own feelings. If I was chronically ill and got sick every flu season my answer may be different.

jdj, if you don't mind correcting my "amazing ignorance" tell me why I am not getting sick when my coworkers are dropping like flys in the fall and winter, gf is home sick for 4 days at a time and I don't get a cough out of it. Apparently you know, please tell me why I am more immune than others and why I still should/shouldn't get the shot.

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Post by silencertalk » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:19 am

Either 1 or 2 below explains it:


1. You are likely more immune than them. However, you seem to think if you get the shot you will get less immune. You will not. You will get even more immune.

2. Also one can flip a coin and get heads 5 times in a row. It does not mean anything.

In either case, I think you would benefit from a flu shot. Think of it like this... Do you want to be one of those people who only buy a gun after they are a victim of crime? Or do you instead want to be smart and realize that crime is out there, and there is a statistical chance of you being a victim. You then look into the odds and the downside and then prepare in advance.

What is the cost of the flu shot?

- $25?
- risk of allergic reaction?
- pain of needle?
- possible sore arm?
- government mind control?

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Post by flip » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:31 am

I think that #1, I don't like taking s--t that may or may not do anything for me. I think the example what was given earlier is that scientists/pharmacudical companies try to "predict" what strain of flu is going to be the de jour and formulate a vaccine for what they are predicting. Are there any studies out there that compare people that got the shot to those that got sick and what viral strain/shot they were given?
#2 I am 33 and so far I have tossed the coin say 32 times and have gotten the same result each time. I don't feel like introducing an engineered virus into my body and posibilly throwing a wrench in my immune systems mojo. jdj can tell me how wrong I am with this thinking. My mom gets the flu shot religiously every year, she gets sicker than hell religiously every year. Dad and grandma get the shot every year and about 75% of the time they are down and out for 3-5 days every year. This is one example I base my resoning for not getting the s--t, I don't feel it is effective.

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Post by silencertalk » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:39 am

You mom gets a cold or tested positive for Influenza?

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