H1N1 vaccine

[smcharchan]

I brought in the big guns. My wife is a RN... a good one.

She is telling me that ~10 years ago when Mercury thermometers (blood press cuffs too) were still common and there was a mercury spill that everyone had to evacuate the immediate area and environmental services had to be called.

Overreaction perhaps.

Regardless, you suggesting that you are ok with injecting a substance that requires that kind of containment into your body.

[smcharchan]

No, I would not do 3x the daily dose every day.

I never suggested that you trickster.

[silencertalk]

Regardless, you suggesting that you are ok with injecting a substance that requires that kind of containment into your body.

Mercury is in the water you drink already and in fish. It just depends how many atoms of it.

[Crosshair]

Regardless, you suggesting that you are ok with injecting a substance that requires that kind of containment into your body.

Mercury is in the water you drink already and in fish. It just depends how many atoms of it.

Not to mention that Arsenic and Selenium are trace nutrients. Yet in higher doses they are deadly poisons. We are that point where medical technology can detect things at levels so small that just because we can detect it, doesn't mean it's a problem.

[JohnInNH]

I remember in school when discussing surface tension we all got to submerge our hand in a huge glass container of mercury.. It was very cool.. Then we got to play with it in out hands... COOL STUFF! ..

With 23 kids doing it I am sure more of it hit the floor than we noticed. We noticed how it scattered all over when it did.

I remember trying to clean up as much as we could after class with a piece of paper and some 4x5 cards.

Some of that class of students went on to be very successful.. A Vineyard owner, cement company owner, lawyer and even an MD.

Thermometers and carb sticks and many other pressure/vaccume gauges have shattered over the years w/o the sky falling...

Where does it come from? Is it a man made toxin?

I personally feel it is way overstated as a toxin when exposure is limited. Thankfully it is processed and eliminated. As with lead some forms of it are worse than others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal Make sure you read the Toxicology .. very interesting..

Thiomersal (INN) (C9H9HgNaO2S), or sodium ethylmercurithiosalicylate, commonly known in the United States as thimerosal, is an organomercury compound (approximately 49% mercury by weight) used as an antiseptic and antifungal agent.

It was invented and patented by Morris Kharasch. The pharmaceutical corporation Eli Lilly and Company gave it the trade name Merthiolate and it has been used as a preservative in vaccines, immunoglobulin preparations, skin test antigens, antivenins, ophthalmic and nasal products, and tattoo inks. The compound is being phased out from routine childhood vaccines in the United States, the European Union, and a few other countries.[1]

Mercury is bad for you.

Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, a sterile suspension for intramuscular injection, is supplied in two presentations:
•0.5 mL preservative-free, single-dose, pre-filled syringe. (3, 11)
• 5 mL multi-dose vial containing ten doses. Thimerosal, a mercury derivative, is added as a preservative; each 0.5 mL dose contains 24.5 micrograms (mcg) of mercury. (3, 11)

Source:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsB ... 182401.pdf

Another government agency, the EPA, uses this:

The EPA's methylmercury guideline is a recommended limit on mercury consumption based on bodyweight, also known as a "reference dose." EPA's methylmercury reference dose is .1 micrograms/kg body weight per day. In July 2000, the National Academy of Sciences found the EPA's reference dose as "scientifically justifiable" for protecting most Americans.

So they recommend a 170 pound person take in no more than 7.71 micrograms any given day.

I wonder if they meant to say each .5 mg dose contains 24.5 micrograms (mcg) of mercury OR if it contains 24.5 MCG of Thiomersal which is only about 50% mercury

Remember Mercurochrome?

If I had the choice I would use the single dose option for ANY injections.... but being on self injected meds for years I think some of the paranoia is due to a very small number of problems. They are now saying don't even bother with the alcohol swabbing of the injection site. WTF? They say it can actually introduce more germs than the sterile needle through the DRY skin as it is really not dragging any germs in, they are wiped off as the needle goes in. If wet they can be delivered farther in..... Hummm.....

I still wipe the area and make sure things are clean when I take my meds. Probably more out of habit. My Dad was "on the needle" he has the "sugar bad" (expressions I can't stand)

Diabetes is not pronounced Diabetis

Anyway, we kids would all cram in the bathroom and watch Daddy prepare his "shot" and take it... We knew how to test for sugar in our pee an would test once a week for fun. all very smartly to prepare us for the day we got it, if we got it. Only one of the 3 of us did.

It may actually kill my brother before my Dad. Which brings me back to vaccinations... or anything we get in vials to inject. A splinter, bee sting, sliver under your fingernail, and tick bite are all MUCH 1000's of times more of a risk and have no benefit.

The flu shoot, and especially the H1N1 WILL save lives... it may actually give you some coverage for when the next real bad pandemic flu hits since it has Swine and Avian strains....

"genes in this new virus (H1N1) were very similar to influenza viruses that normally occur in pigs (swine) in North America. But further study has shown that this new virus is very different from what normally circulates in North American pigs. It has two genes from flu viruses that normally circulate in pigs in Europe and Asia and bird (avian) genes and human genes. Scientists call this a "quadruple reassortant" virus."

[Rgray]

40 years with no flu shots, still here.

39 years. No flu shots. Never had the flu. Never had Chicken pox either. have had Scarlet Fever though. That sucked.

My daughter has had Gullian Beret' Syndrome (which typically follows a immunization or an infection. Hers followed an infection. Since this is thought to run in the family I am hesitant to get the vaccine..

[Rgray]

Likewise with the Flu, don't be an old person or a child and don't have a compromised immune system and you will probably be fine.

Yes, you will survive it. Meanwhile, you passed it on to several other people. The vaccine does not just protect you, but it protects the kids and old people you are near - as well as people at work.

Because your immune doesn't mean you cant spread it. Door knob cant catch it but you can catch it from the door knob.

[silencertalk]

It means it will stay with you until you next wash your hands rather than for two weeks

[silencertalk]

I am 33 and so far I have tossed the coin say 32 times and have gotten the same result each time.

I always get the shot, and never had the Flu. Therefore by the logic here the shot works very well and is necessary because my relatives who did not get the shot got the Flu.

[delmccormick]

I remember in school when discussing surface tension we all got to submerge our hand in a huge glass container of mercury.. It was very cool.. Then we got to play with it in out hands... COOL STUFF! ..

With 23 kids doing it I am sure more of it hit the floor than we noticed. We noticed how it scattered all over when it did.

I remember trying to clean up as much as we could after class with a piece of paper and some 4x5 cards.

Some of that class of students went on to be very successful.. A Vineyard owner, cement company owner, lawyer and even an MD.

Thermometers and carb sticks and many other pressure/vaccume gauges have shattered over the years w/o the sky falling...

Where does it come from? Is it a man made toxin?

I personally feel it is way overstated as a toxin when exposure is limited. Thankfully it is processed and eliminated. As with lead some forms of it are worse than others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal Make sure you read the Toxicology .. very interesting..

Thiomersal (INN) (C9H9HgNaO2S), or sodium ethylmercurithiosalicylate, commonly known in the United States as thimerosal, is an organomercury compound (approximately 49% mercury by weight) used as an antiseptic and antifungal agent.

It was invented and patented by Morris Kharasch. The pharmaceutical corporation Eli Lilly and Company gave it the trade name Merthiolate and it has been used as a preservative in vaccines, immunoglobulin preparations, skin test antigens, antivenins, ophthalmic and nasal products, and tattoo inks. The compound is being phased out from routine childhood vaccines in the United States, the European Union, and a few other countries.[1]

Mercury is bad for you.

Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, a sterile suspension for intramuscular injection, is supplied in two presentations:
•0.5 mL preservative-free, single-dose, pre-filled syringe. (3, 11)
• 5 mL multi-dose vial containing ten doses. Thimerosal, a mercury derivative, is added as a preservative; each 0.5 mL dose contains 24.5 micrograms (mcg) of mercury. (3, 11)

Source:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsB ... 182401.pdf

Another government agency, the EPA, uses this:

The EPA's methylmercury guideline is a recommended limit on mercury consumption based on bodyweight, also known as a "reference dose." EPA's methylmercury reference dose is .1 micrograms/kg body weight per day. In July 2000, the National Academy of Sciences found the EPA's reference dose as "scientifically justifiable" for protecting most Americans.

So they recommend a 170 pound person take in no more than 7.71 micrograms any given day.

I wonder if they meant to say each .5 mg dose contains 24.5 micrograms (mcg) of mercury OR if it contains 24.5 MCG of Thiomersal which is only about 50% mercury

Remember Mercurochrome?

If I had the choice I would use the single dose option for ANY injections.... but being on self injected meds for years I think some of the paranoia is due to a very small number of problems. They are now saying don't even bother with the alcohol swabbing of the injection site. WTF? They say it can actually introduce more germs than the sterile needle through the DRY skin as it is really not dragging any germs in, they are wiped off as the needle goes in. If wet they can be delivered farther in..... Hummm.....

I still wipe the area and make sure things are clean when I take my meds. Probably more out of habit. My Dad was "on the needle" he has the "sugar bad" (expressions I can't stand)

Diabetes is not pronounced Diabetis

Anyway, we kids would all cram in the bathroom and watch Daddy prepare his "shot" and take it... We knew how to test for sugar in our pee an would test once a week for fun. all very smartly to prepare us for the day we got it, if we got it. Only one of the 3 of us did.

It may actually kill my brother before my Dad. Which brings me back to vaccinations... or anything we get in vials to inject. A splinter, bee sting, sliver under your fingernail, and tick bite are all MUCH 1000's of times more of a risk and have no benefit.

The flu shoot, and especially the H1N1 WILL save lives... it may actually give you some coverage for when the next real bad pandemic flu hits since it has Swine and Avian strains....

"genes in this new virus (H1N1) were very similar to influenza viruses that normally occur in pigs (swine) in North America. But further study has shown that this new virus is very different from what normally circulates in North American pigs. It has two genes from flu viruses that normally circulate in pigs in Europe and Asia and bird (avian) genes and human genes. Scientists call this a "quadruple reassortant" virus."

We played with mercury in junior high science class as well. Remember it just like you do. Very fun moving it around on the lab counters then getting the little pools/balls to rejoin each other. Very science-fictiony at the time.

[flip]

I'm dragging this back up to the top because as of today we have 2 office girls out with what they diagnosed with, you guessed it H1N1. Both are out for minimum of a week and the best part....they both got flu shots. Just a fyi.

[Deathray]

H1N1 is not the same as what is in the seasonal flu shot.

[flip]

H1N1 is not the same as what is in the seasonal flu shot.

I know this but I still think it is funny that they put that s--t in their bodies to prevent getting sick and look what happens. Illness is sometimes unavoidable no matter what precautions are taken.

[Deathray]

The flu shots that those girls had worked marvelously if they didn't come down with the seasonal flu.

[smcharchan]

It boils down to this for me:

We are talking about choice. I choose to filter the mercury out of my water (drinking/cooking/coffee). I choose to avoid fish that has high levels of mercury. I also choose not to inject mercury in my body.

As convincing as everyone's "I do/do not get the shot and I do/do not get sick" (sample size of ONE) argument is, I will not be getting the shot.

While I just criticized some of the logic employed in choosing, I have no interest in criticizing one’s actual choice. I would hope that one would similarly respect my choice. Neither my choice nor that individual's is directly affecting the other person, so who cares?

The H1N1 infection & death rate is making catching the flu a non-issue anyway. It is the politics, fear, and mandatory vaccination that we should be focusing on.

[flip]

It boils down to this for me:

The H1N1 infection & death rate is making catching the flu a non-issue anyway. It is the politics, fear, and mandatory vaccination that we should be focusing on.

Ding ding ding! Win. It will be mandatory when you are on the public ins. plan, don't think it won't be. What they will use is get the shot or else we will deny you coverage argument. F all kinds of that noise.

[JohnInNH]

It boils down to this for me:

We are talking about choice. I choose to filter the mercury out of my water (drinking/cooking/coffee). I choose to avoid fish that has high levels of mercury. I also choose not to inject mercury in my body.

As convincing as everyone's "I do/do not get the shot and I do/do not get sick" (sample size of ONE) argument is, I will not be getting the shot.

While I just criticized some of the logic employed in choosing, I have no interest in criticizing one’s actual choice. I would hope that one would similarly respect my choice. Neither my choice nor that individual's is directly affecting the other person, so who cares?

The H1N1 infection & death rate is making catching the flu a non-issue anyway. It is the politics, fear, and mandatory vaccination that we should be focusing on.

Just get the SINGLE dose H1N1 shot... ... No mercury in it.

Problem is H1N1 is arriving sooner than the seasonal flu.

[ArevaloSOCOM]

No.

My hospital said it was mandatory, so many people said No..........then they went and got all Nazi, making it difficult to opt out, having to give a real reason, pressuring the staff, etc.....

So next year they are talking about making it mandatory.

Fucking gay......

I have never gotten the flu shot and gotten the flu like 2 times in 35 years.

GAY!

[goteron]

You should not use your own experience as a guide in this case because there is no way to divide yourself into 2000 people and have 1000 of you see if you get more sick without the shot and the other 1000 see how you do with it. On large studies, the shot reduces deaths by about 70%.

And then:

I always get the shot, and never had the Flu. Therefore by the logic here the shot works very well and is necessary because my relatives who did not get the shot got the Flu.

[Blaubart]

The H1N1 infection & death rate is making catching the flu a non-issue anyway. It is the politics, fear, and mandatory vaccination that we should be focusing on.

A few of our schools around here are getting hit hard with 25%+ of the student population calling in sick with flu like symptoms.

Guess how many deaths we've had so far?

You guessed it - ZERO.

[Dweezil]

I practice Pulmonary Medicine, at the VA. I have to get it. I'm healthy with a very strong immune system but they frown on us playing "Typhoid Mary," since we deal with older, immunocompromised patients all day long. Really poor form. No worries. It's a dead vaccine. You can't get flu from a dead vaccine. I repeat: YOU. CAN'T. GET. FLU. FROM. THE. FLU.SHOT! Premedicate before the shot with Motrin or Aleve and most of the "serum sickness" symptoms are minimized. H1N1 is more hype than reality but, to me, a free shot is preferable to 4-7 days of feeling like s--t.

[Deathray]

Not being a biology major I must ask: how does one kill a virus when it isn't exactly alive to begin with?

[smcharchan]

The H1N1 infection & death rate is making catching the flu a non-issue anyway. It is the politics, fear, and mandatory vaccination that we should be focusing on.

A few of our schools around here are getting hit hard with 25%+ of the student population calling in sick with flu like symptoms.

Guess how many deaths we've had so far?

You guessed it - ZERO.

Exactly. They get sick, they get better, and then they don't get sick from it again. Remember when everyone thought it would come back as a mutated super virus this fall?

You’d think this was the black plague, the 1918 flu, and trichinosis all wrapped up into one life-ending superbug.

The panic is laughable. "Look at him - he isn't getting the vaccination! He's stupid and he's going to make everyone sick! Leper! Burn him, it's the only way!"

[Dweezil]

Not being a biology major I must ask: how does one kill a virus when it isn't exactly alive to begin with?

It's kinda in that grey area between life and non-life. But to answer, your question: Bleach---outside the body of course...although I'm sure there are some whacko's who think drinking it works too. Try this: then tell us about your explosive diarrhea after you've killed all your GI flora.

With vaccines they typically do something called attenuation where they duplicate the viral antigens that enables your immune system to formulate an immune response but disable or attenuate the portion of the viral matrix that causes the illness. Obviously, this varies with the vaccine but this is the general idea.
Any immunologists or infectious disease specialists want to weigh in here?

[nitram]

imagine a shot that gave you the ability to run a 4 minute mile without breathing hard or breaking a sweat. of course the problem is your body doesn't have to work naturally to attain this ability and in time comes to rely upon the shots. Now lets say you fall off a boat and need to swim to shore lest you drown.... guess what? you die of a heart attack as your body never built it's self up naturally and relied upon the shot for running. When it came time to swim, a slightly different cardio exercise, you weren’t up for it and keeled over.