H1N1 vaccine

[flip]

... I am ok with it being required for school kids

Get them into the routine early, eh? Kinda like the libs are doing now with their progressive agenda? Required to watch BHO, sing praise to his highness?

[silencertalk]

My state has a religious exemption.

It is not as bad as the government requiring child seats in cars as that only affects your child whereas an unvaccinated kid can spread it to many others.

There is a cost to making parents put their kids in the back seat... Each year lots of kids die from being left in a hot car. If the kids were in the front it never would have happened.

[flip]

[quote="rsilvers"]

an unvaccinated kid can spread it to many others.

[quote]

That being said, businesses or the state, take your pick, should require all workers to be vaccinated. If the issue is proximity is what is spreadding the illness, it can't be confined JUST to schools. I have 4 other coworkers within 12 feet of me, numerous customers under 10 feet. Then if the s--t gets airborne forget about it, no where is safe.

[silencertalk]

That would be logical. The state seems to protect kids first though. Lots of laws to protect kids that do not apply to adults.

[flip]

That would be logical. The state seems to protect kids first though. Lots of laws to protect kids that do not apply to adults.

They know most parents are not smart enought to know what is best for thier own kids, .gov has to tell us.

[tuckerrnr1]

I find myself laughing at the germaphobes that go into the grocery store and get the hand wipes and wipe down the cart handle and everything else and then go and grab stuff off the shelves that came from who knows where.

[flip]

I find myself laughing at the germaphobes that go into the grocery store and get the hand wipes and wipe down the cart handle and everything else and then go and grab stuff off the shelves that came from who knows where.

This is my girlfriend-we are on opposite sides of the spectrum when it comes to how clean one's hands must be and how many times they should be washed. She has a fit when I load the dirty dishes into the dish washer if I don't wash my hands first. She is almost OCD with the hand washing thing. The funny thing is she is the one that gets sick 2 times a year.

[silencertalk]

She has a fit when I load the dirty dishes into the dish washer if I don't wash my hands first.

Now that is unusual.

[flip]

She has a fit when I load the dirty dishes into the dish washer if I don't wash my hands first.

Now that is unusual.

She is a clean freak. She spent 2 days this week cleaning 2 bathrooms, bleach and soap ceiling to floor. She is a very unique woman

[700PSS]

So if you get a shot to prevent "the flu" so you don't get sick why bother if you can still get a form of the flu in your GI/stomach?

There is no such thing as "Stomach Flu" It is not Influenza. That is a layman's term for a stomach virus.

The shot is to prevent the common strains of the Flu, not random other viruses out there on the planet.

Your argument may work fine for you, but it is a little naive. Just like Robert's gun analogy, your argument flies in the face of ALL PREVENTATIVE measures. I guess you never wear a condom because you haven't gotten teh AIDS yet, no fire extinguishers because you haven't burned down your house.

I haven't gotten malaria yet, so I don't use Backwoods OFF to prevent mosquito bites. Damn, I do drink Vodka and Tonic though, maybe I should stop that, I wouldn't want any Quinine in my system to prevent malaria.

Evern more often, "stomach virus" is food poisoning. We just don't realize it.

[700PSS]

I find myself laughing at the germaphobes that go into the grocery store and get the hand wipes and wipe down the cart handle and everything else and then go and grab stuff off the shelves that came from who knows where.

This is my girlfriend-we are on opposite sides of the spectrum when it comes to how clean one's hands must be and how many times they should be washed. She has a fit when I load the dirty dishes into the dish washer if I don't wash my hands first. She is almost OCD with the hand washing thing. The funny thing is she is the one that gets sick 2 times a year.

If you think it's silly to clean the shopping cart handles, think of all the little snot-nosed brats that are spewing forth who knows what from the daycare onto it.

[flip]

I find myself laughing at the germaphobes that go into the grocery store and get the hand wipes and wipe down the cart handle and everything else and then go and grab stuff off the shelves that came from who knows where.

This is my girlfriend-we are on opposite sides of the spectrum when it comes to how clean one's hands must be and how many times they should be washed. She has a fit when I load the dirty dishes into the dish washer if I don't wash my hands first. She is almost OCD with the hand washing thing. The funny thing is she is the one that gets sick 2 times a year.

If you think it's silly to clean the shopping cart handles, think of all the little snot-nosed brats that are spewing forth who knows what from the daycare onto it.

Meh, what doesn't kill you makes ya stonger

[700PSS]

There seem to be a lower percentage of people on this site who will do it than the general population. I find that interesting. It must be a distrust of government as it is hard to otherwise explain based on the medical implications.

Definitely a distrust of "government". I hope people don't start growing a third arm after a few months, as quickly as they threw this H1N1 vaccine together? When I got the "seasonal flu" vaccination at my doctor's office Wednesday, the nurse agreed and also expressed that she was in no hurry to get the H1N1 vaccination herself. Not only will it still be a while before she could, it's only available to very young patients right now anyway.

[silencertalk]

They made it with the same process as the seasonal Flu vaccine.

The amount of time they took to develop it at most will effect how close a match it is but not the risk.

[Blaubart]

Not only will it still be a while before she could, it's only available to very young patients right now anyway.

There are several priority categories and healthcare providers are usually near the top of the list. I haven't read the official CDC guidelines yet, but our policy is that pregnant students and students with chronic medical conditions come first, then students younger than 24.

[Deathray]

Meh, what doesn't kill you makes ya stonger

Or makes you wish it did.

Or merely delays the inevitable.

[700PSS]

They made it with the same process as the seasonal Flu vaccine.

The amount of time they took to develop it at most will effect how close a match it is but not the risk.

What if the government threw together an AIDS vaccine and BHO mandated that everyone has to get it? Maybe some time afterward, we find out the botched vaccine actually causes AIDS.

[JohnInNH]

Many people insisted getting penicillin back in the 60's when the got sick. With the just in case it gos into my lungs... or some other BS and the MD would comply ... Not knowing that a few penicillin pills (which really won;t "hurt" you that much)... but they were unaware of the effect it had on developing antibiotic resistant bacteria back then.

My Polish parents in law ALWAYS talked the MD into giving hem a bottle of penicillin when they got sick. They would pop a few for a few days till they feel better (the cold would pass) and they would not get a secondary sinus or lung infection...

BUT over the years Alice developed a UTI that would become harder and harder to go away. (had she FINISHED the freaking bottle of penicillin in the early days it may have helped)

But over the years she had to take stronger medications and developed a super bug infection. She has had a UTI for most of her adult life.

1) MD caving and giving antibiotics to patients who new nothing about medicine but demanded antibiotics Going to a MD appointment and not getting pills seemed like a rip off.

2) Old family MDs did not understand 2 things.. the development of super bugs, and did not stress enough that a patient FINISH the course of prescribed antibiotics when the patient really needed them.

Wives tales and medical ignorance

Patients own a lot too. They believe in wives tales and are extremely ignorant when it comes to medicine and how the body works. .... Mis-association leading to misinformation.

TB is an example of people owning the creation of untreatable TB. Same with VD

"you will catch your death of a cold... put a coat on!"

"Taking pills is bad for you"

"The shot is worse than the disease"

"The side effects" OMG!

Quacks practicing medicine Quacks include:

U.S. massage therapists (compare the US requirements and course descriptions to that of a real therapist from Canada), homeopaths, Natural paths, "nutritionists", New age eastern medicine sales persons, Live Blood cell analysis, Aura cleansing,
Chakra balancing, Muscle testing to see what supplements/remedies you need based on how strong you hold up your arm when holding the bottle of the remedy!

Then the cure all "Colloidal Silver" Which is very harmful an has no proven benefit at all (except in a water filter)

Go to a Health "expo" .... Because we have a tolerant "free" country we let this nonsense go on. Some of which is criminal in my opinion.

I have to go to these events for my company and am appalled by what goes on. Absolutely amazed how ignorant most people are and who THINK they are smart...

Some new age health expert with no training other than learning the sales pitch going on and on how western medicine is all a plot by big pharma... feeding into their fears. Ultimately, they are selling you something to take your money. Pure Air. a $500 Ozone generator?

They whip out a black box warning and show people the "risks" of taking an FDA "approved" drug. Sure some drugs are highly risky. I am against many of them.. but just because SSRI or SSNRIs have a laundry list of side effects does not mean a simple flu vaccine is in the same class.

Taking a Flu shot BUILDS you immune system... It is just as good ad building the immune response as getting the "real thing" but with out the risks of getting the real thing. My son has weak lungs because he was very sick and got the real flu and it settled in his lungs leading to pneumonia. Had his MOM gotten hi a simple flu shot he may not have this life long problem.

Getting very sick does not help strengthen your body and immune system it hurts you. Living a healthy life eating good food and being active is the key... and taking a vaccine to prevent getting the full blown illness helps too.

Their product can't cause these deadly side effects (it also only has placebo effect but that's enough to get 50 testimonials from people who swear by this product even though they would have gotten better anyway)

It is so blatantly disgusting to anyone with a real medical background it is sickening. No wonder we can't eradicate preventable disease in this country. These "Healers" as they call themselves cause much more harm than good.

PIG pills: http://www.pigpills.com/ Just ONE example of these healers who are just in it for the $.

Many of the "healers" truly BELIEVE the nonsense they preach.

StillPoint is an example. http://www.stillpoint.org//SP/Home/index.cfm They self publish all the books ... They charge $10K to go to the school to become a healer... you still have to pay room and board. When done you have a worthless piece of paper.

They had so many disgruntled people demanding $ back they had to posted signs on the mail box. "These premises under 100% camera surveillance" and a big NO TRESPASSING sign...

After I looked into it more they are tax exempt non profit organization ... it is all a scam to not pay the huge property taxes on their "estate" ... the "program" has changed a LOT in 10 years. The property is for sale now. It is HUGE and worth well over $900k but they don't pay taxes.

The more I looked into it the more I realized the entire thing is BS. The tax exempt has nothing to do with the "school" but something to do with a foundation set up for prisoners in some other state.

My guess so they can visit a relative in the joint for free and write off all expenses for the visits as well as the other advantages.

There is SOOOOOOoooooo much money in this new age anti western medicine culture ..... I cringe every time my wife gets one of these books or goes to some day conference and is fed a HUGE pile of cow s--t ..... taking months to deprogram her. She is a walking target...My wife is so gullible ... She believe that they had better medicine in the American Indian culture.. with healers. Than MDs

Not looking at the facts that the mortality rate even from even simple injuries were dismal. Life expectancy was what 37?.

Childbirth killed many... Woman were treated like dogs. But the new age books make it sound like it was nirvana. A fairy tail of a simple existence and a bonding with the mother earth. Oh boy did we rewrite the truth.

Life expectancy of American Indians did not improve until 1930.

http://books.google.com/books?id=yCe-jE ... ns&f=false

Look at pages 19-page 35 or more and look at the population #s and the increase after 1930 (western medicine) for all the tribes.

1738 Cherokee 8.250
1980 " 232,080

1771 Seneca 4,000
1980 " 7,220

Page 27 is a chart Figure 2.3b showing the effects of disease

Now we have books and groups of new age people pushing to go back to "traditional" medicine WTF? A poultice of some weeds and herbs to heal my Pneumonia... Oh and add some crystals and put a pyramid over me. Yea that's the ticket.

I went to a quack-o-practor once to help with my neck... (he made it 10x worse) He would put a disk under your head with crystals in it... than wave a feather over you... then let you stay there alone wondering WFT? for 20 minutes... then bill the insurance Co. for a 45 minute treatment.

4 woman in my office swore he was the best.. So I went to him a few times to give his the benefit of the doubt.

X-rays.. then the lecture of how it took 35 years to mess my "alignment" up and it would not get fixed in a week. (the set up)

I finally managed to get a friend to pop my back into place and got better in a few days.

Now the Quack-o-practors have the "clicker" Have you see this one? It is a spring loaded button released OTF (out the front like a windshield breaker) VERY low powered rubber tipped gizmo.

They cock it and fire it at he suspect offending "misalignment". About the same as if you flicked your kids ear with your middle finger fired/slipped off your thumb. A little tiny thump... Yep.. ALMOST fixed... Fill out the papers so I can get my $75 and see you next week. 5 minutes...

Chakra balancing... you have an energy blockage.... Hummm lay down and I will do some "energy" work and "fix" it... They hold their hands over you about 1/4 of an inch.... Can you feel the heat? It's working! ..... You lay there bored... as you nose blocks up and they basically do nothing other than hover there hands over you and imagine the energy flowing through their hands and through your "blocked" Chakra... That will be $100 thank you very much... see you in a week... it will take time to get that blockage opened up.

They even take classes on this s--t! Read the curriculum of some of the "massage" schools.

Here in the States it is a freaking JOKE. In Canada it is more like a PT model.. with REAL medical courses. No VooDoo. BS.

All this CRAP adds up ... Radio shows about alternative "medicine" Aura cameras???? WTF.... The Line at that POS booth was 30 minutes long. People wanted to have Aura pictures of their DOGS!

The FDA ... no the common sense fairy should come to those places with a huge club and SMACK these charlatans on the head.

Then the miracle anti oxidant juices (comes in a wine bottle and costs like $30-50) Take one ounce a day... and you will live forever. Your gray hair will go away! No s--t they told me that! I wish I could remember the name of those people .. they go to all the holistic health expos... Similar to "Prime One" but w/o the science.

They do have one of the most expensive booths I have seen.

They drive a Mercadies SUV GL 550 not bad for selling blend of Acai Berry/pomegranate juice and some other proprietary crap.

But a shot that saves at a minimum of 35K a year is BAD... and the H1N1 shot is even more dangerous??? WHY?

In 1976, vaccination with the swine flu vaccine was associated with getting GBS. Several studies have been done to evaluate if other flu vaccines since 1976 were associated with GBS. Only one of the studies showed an association. That study suggested that one person out of 1 million vaccinated persons may be at risk of GBS associated with the vaccine.

Read that a few times.... ONE study of MANY showed there might be a link and If there is a link the risk is 1 in a MILLION! I have a much higher risk of dying from the flu.

Yet these people who bitch about side effects and such .. Light up a smoke and drink. I rest my case.

My Pappy lived to be 98 and never went to a MD in his life... it was his shot of whiskey every day and a shot of apple vinegar..... That Windex was good for poison ivy and the gout too.

[Blaubart]

... the government ... actually causes AIDS.

True story. (After being edited Michael Moore style )

[smcharchan]

Mercury is bad for you.

Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, a sterile suspension for intramuscular injection, is supplied in two presentations:
•0.5 mL preservative-free, single-dose, pre-filled syringe. (3, 11)
• 5 mL multi-dose vial containing ten doses. Thimerosal, a mercury derivative, is added as a preservative; each 0.5 mL dose contains 24.5 micrograms (mcg) of mercury. (3, 11)

Source:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsB ... 182401.pdf

Another government agency, the EPA, uses this:

The EPA's methylmercury guideline is a recommended limit on mercury consumption based on bodyweight, also known as a "reference dose." EPA's methylmercury reference dose is .1 micrograms/kg body weight per day. In July 2000, the National Academy of Sciences found the EPA's reference dose as "scientifically justifiable" for protecting most Americans.

So they recommend a 170 pound person take in no more than 7.71 micrograms any given day.

Hmmm: They advise us not to eat tuna because it exceeds this dose, but tell us it is ok to let them pump a preservative into our body that contains 3 times the safe dose.

Your government, hard at work.

At best it proves that the two agencies disagree with one another. At worst, well, you be the judge.

[smcharchan]

Good job "stirring the pot" Robert!

[silencertalk]

That is an average daily dose. 3x that once a year is nothing.

The FDA recommends a limit of 6 oz of Tuna a week. This is one can a week and a lot less Mercury than a Flu shot once a year.

The average daily dose of radiation is 1 mrem. If you get a CAT scan, it is 110 mrem. 110 times the normal daily dose. An upper-GI x-ray is 245 mrem - almost a year's worth of radiation.

But you know what? A pilot who flies back and forth across the country each day gets 3x the level of radiation of someone who lives in Colorado and gets a dental x-ray every day.

[JohnInNH]

Mercury is bad for you.

Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, a sterile suspension for intramuscular injection, is supplied in two presentations:
•0.5 mL preservative-free, single-dose, pre-filled syringe. (3, 11)
• 5 mL multi-dose vial containing ten doses. Thimerosal, a mercury derivative, is added as a preservative; each 0.5 mL dose contains 24.5 micrograms (mcg) of mercury. (3, 11)

Source:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsB ... 182401.pdf

Another government agency, the EPA, uses this:

The EPA's methylmercury guideline is a recommended limit on mercury consumption based on bodyweight, also known as a "reference dose." EPA's methylmercury reference dose is .1 micrograms/kg body weight per day. In July 2000, the National Academy of Sciences found the EPA's reference dose as "scientifically justifiable" for protecting most Americans.

So they recommend a 170 pound person take in no more than 7.71 micrograms any given day.

Hmmm: They advise us not to eat tuna because it exceeds this dose, but tell us it is ok to let them pump a preservative into our body that contains 3 times the safe dose.

Your government, hard at work.

At best it proves that the two agencies disagree with one another. At worst, well, you be the judge.

Just get the single does not the one form the 5 mg vial. Simple enough.. JUST ASK! (the VA will use the single dose shot method as it is FASTER)

[smcharchan]

That is an average daily dose. 3x that once a year is nothing.

The FDA recommends a limit of 6 oz of Tuna a week. This is one can a week and a lot less Mercury than a Flu shot once a year.

The average daily dose of radiation is 1 mrem. If you get a CAT scan, it is 110 mrem. 110 times the normal daily dose. An upper-GI x-ray is 245 mrem - almost a year's worth of radiation.

But you know what? A pilot who flies back and forth across the country each day gets 3x the level of radiation of someone who lives in Colorado and gets a dental x-ray every day.

Your logic is sometimes quirky, but I like debate-jitsu, so I'll bite.

True, the report suggests it is 3x the daily dose. You say that "is nothing". Is that to say you are comfortable getting a daily injection of the government's accepted "daily dose" and/or you are comfortable with getting a one time injection of 3x the government's accepted "daily dose"? If that is the case let's link up. I've got one of those 1980's "walk the mercury ball through the maze" pocket games here and a hypodermic with your name on it.

And who the hell lives in Colorado and gets a dental x-ray every day? Is that relevant to our discussion about Mercury? Have you been drinking?

Let's do this...

[silencertalk]

I am saying their recommendations are average daily dose so a shot that happens once a year and is 3x the daily dose is not a concern to them or us. No, I would not do 3x the daily dose every day.