Do you believe in God?

[ick]

if that is a prophecy of the coming of jesus why does the religion who is responsible for its writing disagree? were they writing a prophecy that they were not aware of?

You seem to have it. At the time they did not understand what this verse was saying... it was set to be fulfilled. If you ask me, it is pretty clear looking back now. The prophesy was for the Jews to help them "watch". Not surprisingly the prophecy in and of itself it even predicts the very rejection of the Messiah that was to come.

The evidence is also there "for us" so we can see God's handiwork... and thereby have evidence of God.

[ick]

does my view on god disturb you?

That is an EXCELLENT question and one I personally get all the time.

I look at it like this.... If I knew somehow for certain you were going to be hit by a car tomorrow, I should tell you the information so you can avoid that consequence. What you do with the information it is up to you. It would be great for you to take action... but if you don't believe... it is up to you.

You must weigh the evidence and make your own conclusion.

[bikefreek]

does my view on god disturb you?

That is an EXCELLENT question and one I personally get all the time.

I look at it like this.... If I knew somehow for certain you were going to be hit by a car tomorrow, I should tell you the information so you can avoid that consequence. What you do with the information it is up to you. It would be great for you to take action... but if you don't believe... it is up to you.

You must weigh the evidence and make your own conclusion.

I find it interesting that you compare a life without god (regardless of how good the person is).... to getting hit by a car...... I think you should take a look at the reason you made that statement and see how well it aligns with your religious views

[bikefreek]

libertyman does my view on god disturb you?

[Selectedmarksman]

You can't prove the existence of God. If you did, then faith would serve no purpose.
You can't disprove the existence of God.
You can go around in circles of stalemate though, and that's just not fun for me.

This is pretty much it.

Again, for Selectedmarksman, I believe in God, I mean, I believe Jesus was his son, the holy spirit, etc. You've obviously read the bible.

As for why I believe? I've experienced things in my life, that at certain points, I thought were miracles, I believe I've heard from God a handful of times, honestly at critical junctures in my life. Am I going to share it infront of a thread of atheists and be told I'm hallucinating? Or be told that's not a miracle, while they refuse to answer simple questions about something they whole heartedly believe?

You know what's hysterical to me, and I mean hysterical. People claim there is no God, and absolutely abhor the idea that there is one, they believe in Science, what we can touch, taste, feel, hear, see, observe, they don't believe in what they can't explain (so they claim) or what they can't see, right?

And then say. "Well, they somehow made the jump from single cell to multi cell, it had to have happened." Isn't that Faith to a practical realist, to the same man that damns faith? Isn't that some kind of Fairy Tale, where they don't know, but hope and claim that happened?

Let's discuss the Big Bang theory and how anything could've survived that blast.

I had the recent experience of going into the hospital after blacking out and hitting the floor from dehydration from fever (Mono), I went in, and was billed $2200 (Because my insurance at the time didn't cover it) to get an I.V. drip of Water, be improperly diagnosed with para influenza (The flu without the congestion sides of it), then two weeks later I went in to the Doctor I was still sick and told them I thought I had mono, swollen glands, etc, guess what, for $8 I found out I had Mono, which they said they could do nothing for.

I've watched family members be blasted with radiation to try to eradicate cancer, and it seeming like a race to see which killed them faster, the Radiation or the Cancer.

It strikes me as funny, honestly, I predict, Medical practices that we're conducting today because of what we know, Right? In 30-40 years (and this has repeated throughout history) will be enough to get you sued for Mal practice.

A large amount of medical discoveries are simply that, discoveries, accidents, where we can hypothesize.

We finished mapping the Human Genome in 2003, and we are beginning to actually have ideas about DNA.

So, let's continue the discussion.

What I'd like is to see if we can get anymore traction on the single-cell to multi-cell conversation, if at all possible.

or We can continue the back and forth of "Why do you believe in God?" "Why don't you?".

I've officially bowed out of the discussion, but I just wanted to say that this is an outstanding post. This is the kind of thing I really enjoy reading, and the kind of believer (of any faith) I enjoy learning from. Thanks, BWT, you may have just saved the thread.

I'll be back to read along if things continue on this positive track.

[libertyman777]

does my view on god disturb you?

Of course not.

[bikefreek]

does my view on god disturb you?

Of course not.

So explain your post at the top of page 2....

[libertyman777]

does my view on god disturb you?

Of course not.

So explain your post at the top of page 2....

Ah. I'm a Star Wars fan.

I believe that the previous poster that I quoted was making a lighthearted jab at some of the posts. It was nothing more than a lighthearted agreement. It's just that when he posted it, I could hear Darth Vader saying the line.

But in all seriousness, I fault no one for their beliefs. I'm not God. I'm just here trying to make a reasonable argument for my personal belief system. But when all is said and done, I am powerless. Although I admit that there have been times I have wished I had that "choke someone with my mind 'power'". You gotta admit that's pretty cool.

Paul

[ick]

does my view on god disturb you?

That is an EXCELLENT question and one I personally get all the time.

I look at it like this.... If I knew somehow for certain you were going to be hit by a car tomorrow, I should tell you the information so you can avoid that consequence. What you do with the information it is up to you. It would be great for you to take action... but if you don't believe... it is up to you.

You must weigh the evidence and make your own conclusion.

I find it interesting that you compare a life without god (regardless of how good the person is).... to getting hit by a car...... I think you should take a look at the reason you made that statement and see how well it aligns with your religious views

Well that is a bit crass. More like.... if you were in danger and I knew it shouldn't I warn you? Similarly, if you find no evidence of God and I know He exists and have evidence, shouldn't I tell you? To be solumn if there is a God and you reject that, that is pretty serious stuff.

I think you might be projecting something that is not there on to my comment.

[doubloon]

does my view on god disturb you?

Of course not.

So explain your post at the top of page 2....

Beside the fact he is a Star Wars fan you have stated repeatedly you believe in things you cannot prove.

There's a difference between lack of faith and view on god. Is English your second language?

[bikefreek]

That is an EXCELLENT question and one I personally get all the time.

I look at it like this.... If I knew somehow for certain you were going to be hit by a car tomorrow, I should tell you the information so you can avoid that consequence. What you do with the information it is up to you. It would be great for you to take action... but if you don't believe... it is up to you.

You must weigh the evidence and make your own conclusion.[/quote]

I find it interesting that you compare a life without god (regardless of how good the person is).... to getting hit by a car...... I think you should take a look at the reason you made that statement and see how well it aligns with your religious views[/quote]

Well that is a bit crass. More like.... if you were in danger and I knew it shouldn't I warn you? Similarly, if you find no evidence of God and I know He exists and have evidence, shouldn't I tell you? To be solumn if there is a God and you reject that, that is pretty serious stuff.

I think you might be projecting something that is not there on to my comment.[/quote]

again you use the analogy of me being in danger to represent me not beliveing in god. I find that interesting to say the least.

And you dont KNOW he exists so quit trying to pass of anything you presented as evidence, if the evidence presented by countless scientists has no weight in this arguement, then nothing you presented does.

[bikefreek]

Beside the fact he is a Star Wars fan you have stated repeatedly you believe in things you cannot prove.

There's a difference between lack of faith and view on god. Is English your second language?[/quote]

No ive stated that i believe in things that CAN BE proven and the proof is based on empirical evidence. It is the god believers that are believing in unprovable things.
My view on god is that he doesnt exist...how is that not a lack of faith?
Who was it again that only spouts insults and rhetoric?

[libertyman777]

My view on god is that he doesnt exist...how is that not a lack of faith?

That is not a lack of faith. It is a very strong testament to faith. It is faith in action. You "believe" that God doesn't exist. You're trusting in, adhering to and relying on that viewpoint. And that this viewpoint will take you where you want to go in the afterlife, if that's part of your belief system (I don't mean to put words in your mouth).

Everyone places their trust in something. One chooses even if one refuses to choose.

[bikefreek]

My view on god is that he doesnt exist...how is that not a lack of faith?

That is not a lack of faith. It is a very strong testament to faith. It is faith in action. You "believe" that God doesn't exist. You're trusting in, adhering to and relying on that viewpoint. And that this viewpoint will take you where you want to go in the afterlife, if that's part of your belief system (I don't mean to put words in your mouth).

Everyone places their trust in something. One chooses even if one refuses to choose.

now you are just twisting words around. first my lack of belief in god prompted a quote from star wars about a lack of faith and you agreed with it....now my lack of belief is a faith and a strong testament to it. which is it cause you are talking in circles now

[libertyman777]

My view on god is that he doesnt exist...how is that not a lack of faith?

That is not a lack of faith. It is a very strong testament to faith. It is faith in action. You "believe" that God doesn't exist. You're trusting in, adhering to and relying on that viewpoint. And that this viewpoint will take you where you want to go in the afterlife, if that's part of your belief system (I don't mean to put words in your mouth).

Everyone places their trust in something. One chooses even if one refuses to choose.

now you are just twisting words around. first my lack of belief in god prompted a quote from star wars about a lack of faith and you agreed with it....now my lack of belief is a faith and a strong testament to it. which is it cause you are talking in circles now

Now you know that's not it at all. I explained my statement about the Darth Vader quote. You either take that at face value or not but it was just a tease.

What I said above about your personal belief system and whether or not it bothers me, is true. It does not bother me in the least. You have the right to believe whatever you like. That is where we should work from. Our founders recognized this and made it plain that we are endowed with these rights by our Creator.

You do not have a "lack of belief". You "believe" that there is no God. That's fine and well within your rights. You don't have an absence of belief, everyone trusts in something.

[bakerjw]

Tongue in cheek and only as a blatant attempt to keep this lively thread going...

Would believing in God help Kwikrnu get a silencer approved eventually?

[ick]

I find it interesting that you compare a life without god (regardless of how good the person is).... to getting hit by a car...... I think you should take a look at the reason you made that statement and see how well it aligns with your religious views

Let me see if we are on the same page.

You don't believe God exists and never will until His existence can be scientifically proven OR you have a "road to Damascus" moment where there can be no doubt in your own mind.
Personal testimony of others, investigation into fulfilled prophecy, and the unique and unusual properties of the Bible don't sway you.

If you are wrong and it turns out that there actually IS a God... then you think it unreasonable/unfair that denying his existence may have some sort of consequence.

I don’t mean to diminish what you are saying, just trying to dial in on your beliefs.

[bikefreek]

I find it interesting that you compare a life without god (regardless of how good the person is).... to getting hit by a car...... I think you should take a look at the reason you made that statement and see how well it aligns with your religious views

Let me see if we are on the same page.

You don't believe God exists and never will until His existence can be scientifically proven OR you have a "road to Damascus" moment where there can be no doubt in your own mind.
Personal testimony of others, investigation into fulfilled prophecy, and the unique and unusual properties of the Bible don't sway you.

If you are wrong and it turns out that there actually IS a God... then you think it unreasonable/unfair that denying his existence may have some sort of consequence.

I don’t mean to diminish what you are saying, just trying to dial in on your beliefs.

personal testimony of what others "feel" isnt proof. Pointing to an obscure ancienty "prophecy" written in the very book you are trying to prove valid is not proof, its self supporting to say the least.

are you saying that i will be punished by god if i dont believe in him? beacuse anyone or anything that would punish another for something as arrogant as not worshiping them doesnt seem like a person or thing worth being a part of.

[bikefreek]

Tongue in cheek and only as a blatant attempt to keep this lively thread going...

Would believing in God help Kwikrnu get a silencer approved eventually?

was that the guy that was playing the "well if i cant have one no one can" card? If so he had better pray!!!!!!

[Blaubart]

[quote="BWT]Let's discuss the Big Bang theory and how anything could've survived that blast.[/quote]

from your statement you make it painfully obvious that you do not understand big bang theory...yet you insist its wrong...

Quit your rambling and tell me how the big bang theory worked then, and what exactly it is. Quantify it, explain it, make an argument.

The information is out there, there is no need for us to explain it. For me, the Big Bang Theory is just that, a "theory". I don't fully believe it myself, mostly because I just don't fully understand the physics involved. However, what you would know if you took the time to study it a little bit before casually dismissing it, is that it doesn't claim that life existed before or during the "Big Bang".

I suppose that would be like me saying "Let's discuss the Bible. Why should I kill Jews?" When you say I don't understand the Bible, should I reply "Quit your rambling and tell me what the Bible says then!" No, that would be nonsense...

[ick]

I will take that as a yes.

personal testimony of what others "feel" isnt proof. Pointing to an obscure ancienty "prophecy" written in the very book you are trying to prove valid is not proof, its self supporting to say the least.

No, it is taking the material and comparing it to known historical events to verify validity. It is also taking a document known to be written 600 years prior to events and verifying that these events unfolded. We can go over some other items in the Bible similar to this passage... but that is a waste of time. You are clearly not interested.

are you saying that i will be punished by god if i dont believe in him? beacuse anyone or anything that would punish another for something as arrogant as not worshiping them doesnt seem like a person or thing worth being a part of.

The Bible and an observation of life in general reveals that you have free will. It is your choice. It seems there are no consequences because you believe there are none. Since you have no belief in anything... this discussion also has no consequences.

[Blaubart]

You know what's hysterical to me, and I mean hysterical. People claim there is no God, and absolutely abhor the idea that there is one...

For me, it isn't that I "abhor the idea that there is [a god]", I abhor what some people do because they believe there is a God and that whatever they've been promised outside of this world is more important that what is right there before them in this world. I also abhor what some people that don't even believe in God tell other people to do after convincing them that there is a God.

For me, it isn't "hysterical", it's manipulative and nauseating.

[ick]

Well put. That is what I see as the very mistake made by the Pharisees and Sadducees. it is not about being "religious", it is about having a personal relationship. Those two groups found themselves obeying rules and traditions but their hearts were empty… serving their own purpose.

[bikefreek]

I will take that as a yes.

personal testimony of what others "feel" isnt proof. Pointing to an obscure ancienty "prophecy" written in the very book you are trying to prove valid is not proof, its self supporting to say the least.

No, it is taking the material and comparing it to known historical events to verify validity. It is also taking a document known to be written 600 years prior to events and verifying that these events unfolded. We can go over some other items in the Bible similar to this passage... but that is a waste of time. You are clearly not interested.

the very fact that it was written 600 years earlier mean that the "prophecy" could have been delibratley or inadvertently acted out. The fact that christs deciples read the old testament for all of their lives before christs arrival has weight when questioning the validity of the prophecy. Can you rule out the possibility of the old book influencing the writings in the new book?

are you saying that i will be punished by god if i dont believe in him? beacuse anyone or anything that would punish another for something as arrogant as not worshiping them doesnt seem like a person or thing worth being a part of.

The Bible and an observation of life in general reveals that you have free will. It is your choice. It seems there are no consequences because you believe there are none. Since you have no belief in anything... this discussion also has no consequences.

Im asking YOU do you feel i will be punished for not believing

[ick]

There are consequences from separation from God, yes.