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[igpoobah]

Good stuff man, always entertaining.

[Twinsen]

I only read the first one so far, but I'll get to them all.

You gotta explain in more detail how you met the main characters and go into way more detail about them so that they stick in the reader's head.

Also, maybe explain things more stupidly to people. For instance, work literal explanation of things like "Lows" into the narration. That word was explained with the context pretty decently, but maybe work in literal explanations.

Also, maybe have what you thought of the studio gangsters during your walk? I dunno. Might want to pump more filler into the stories by showing more angles. Really short stories are great, but they're really short. I don't know how these fit into your work exactly, so I might be way off.

[jlwilliams]

So far so good. I agree that a little more fleshing out of the characters and the language will help.

It's good that you are doing the stories about the people rather than about all the salatious sex and violence that is often the center piece of prison memoirs. Kind of like the way my Grandfather tells stories about the people, places and things he saw in the infantry in the South Pacific during WWII, but not about the blood and guts. There are human stories worth telling that don't require a bloodbath in the retelling, even though it was there.

[Blaubart]

Interesting, but not nearly as riveting as your story about how you got caught and everything that followed. I did notice this reads a lot more like a book and less like someone telling stories in a forum. I also notice you have a lot better of a memory than I do. I have a hard time recalling what people said yesterday, let alone several months ago. Maybe I should start keeping a journal.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but these stories seem like ordinary interactions between somewhat normal people. Besides the fact that they happened in prison and one of the guys is a convicted pedophile, there's nothing that really jumps out at me as being fascinating. I get to the end of each small story and say "And then...?" or "Is that all?" I realize you're trying to write about actual events and you probably don't want to fabricate stuff, so that's going to be hard.

I don't know if it's possible, because I don't suppose many people share the entire truth the way you did with us, or if they want it published, but I think it would be very interesting to hear about what each of these guys did, how they got caught, how they got convicted, how they plan to appeal, etc. Or, depending on when you plan on publishing this book, you could also write about when they got out, and what they've done since getting out. (Prison Stories Part II?) I read that you're only keeping in touch with one of the guys you met in prison, but it might be possible to get back in touch with some of them a year or two from now.

Reading the descriptions of these guys, I get the impression that prison is full of fatties.

6'5" 275lbs
6'2" 260lbs
5'9" 230lbs
5'10" 235lbs

I saw that you described Rudy as being fat, but I don't know if the other guys are, but I kinda assume they are. The prison here doesn't have any sort of weight lifting facilities or even chin up bars. Exercise is pretty much limited to basketball and what you can do on the floor of a small exercise room (pushups, situps, lunges, etc.) Anyone in prison here more than a few months is going to have a hard time maintaining a muscular build.

You might consider about writing some about the people who work at the prison too.

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[commissar_yarrick]

I honestly don't remember anything about the gangsta rap groups other than they sucked. Other stories will include descriptions of the better rock bands. There was a Tool coverband that was actually pretty good but it's not like you need to be able to sign to cover a Tool song.

Oh irony of ironies if they covered Prison Sex.

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[doubloon]

I like the idea and it looks like a decent framework. Like twinsen said a little more character building would be good. As far as describing the characters goes I'm not sure specific age, height, weight, etc. is necessary ... the Big Man is a burly Rastafarian with long dreads, his hulking frame eclipsing doorways as he passes into each room, his gray beard the only evidence of his accumulating years, all contributing to a perfect disguise for his nimble mind and sharp wit ... something like that only better.

The interactive narrative needs a little more color, a little more environmental detail and a little more "personality" in the interactions. I'm not a writer so I don't have any examples but what comes to mind would be something along the lines of the style in the "Stainless Steel Rat" mini-novels. A little more playful irreverence ... something to make the characters more "likeable". You got the flow I think and the basic material, just needs a little lightening.

All just the rambling opinions of a drunk driving a keyboard of course.

Looks like a fun project.

[jlwilliams]

I gotta go search out the details of your errest etc. I know the bare bones details about it but never read your telling of the tale.

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[bakerjw]

It is commendable that you are attempting to write a book based on your experiences and I always encourage people trying to enter the world of literature. It is certainly a great undertaking and I've not seen anything wrong with your writing style, grammar, and punctuation. An editor might but editors are known pricks.

As an aspiring author I know how hard it is to get things to click or make an interesting story. There is also a vast difference between fiction, be it science, speculative, or run of the mill drama, and the telling of experiences such as yours so my opinion may not be valid. In an attempt to better myself and my writing style I read some books by Orson Scott Card as well as a few others. In fiction there needs to be protagonists, antagonists, and a a plot connecting the conflicting sides together. Good guy wins or Bad guy wins doesn't really matter as long as there is the conflict and the plot.

I've written some very long drawn out stories with fairly well defined characters that I've used in multiple other stories. A lot of the content dealt with normal mundane activities as thew plot built and they've been boring as hell. In other words great characters cannot save a bad plot. I read most of a series by Randolph Lalonde. He built very well defined characters but his plots and side tracks were horrendous. One section dealt with a major character going to a yoga class and there were 3 pages or so detailing every nuance of the experience. It made me want to puke.

Again I read only science and speculative fiction so take my angle with a big grain of salt. As I read through your segments I couldn't find any hooks. The hook needs to be laid out in the first paragraph or so. You can flesh out all of the characters to the nth detail but it still reads like prison stories of everyday life without people being shanked or raped regularly. Conflict holds attention. Kind of like why American Chopper was as successful as it was. If Paul Sr. and his kid got along all the time the show never would have lasted.

I'd recommend going and checking out http://www.hatrack.com/. It is geared more toward fiction but there are some great resources and people there. In my last rejection letter the editor commented that I needed help with my punctuation. I found a English tutor on there that offered to look over my story and critique my punctuation. They thought it was acceptable but I was using formal punctuation which lends itself great for theme papers or a thesis but not for casual reading.

Like I said I'd try to get some pseudo professional critiques and keep at it.

ETA: It is not the forums at hatrack.com but the writers workshop.

[ick]

I realize there is quite a bit of story that precedes these items that the reader might know prior to the first story..... but as I read the first story I found myself wondering if they were at some kind of resort, it didn’t seem like prison to me.

Ice cold pepsi, snacks, chess.... it struck me kind of odd and didn't seem real to me. Well, at least not "real" from what I assumed what it is like to be incarcerated.

Perhaps it is sort of like people assume shooting a firearm is just like in the movies... with easily made precision shots at 1,000 yards... but when you try and describe the difficult reality to them in a “story” it almost doesn't sound believable.

Not sure what you can do with that information, but there it is. Much like other things your story might have to suffer to match perceived reality rather than the way things actually are.

I only read your stories, I didn’t read other posts, did you say your intended audience for the book? General public? Prisoners and their families? I dunno. I know ZERO about entertainment reading.

I hope that helps.

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[ick]

Crimey, welcome to prison 101. I learned a lot there.

[LavaRed]

That should definitely go in the book. No question about it.

[Hush]

That should definitely go in the book. No question about it.

I agree. It would make a hell of an introduction.

[Mongo]

You should write about your what your expectations were before going to prison and the first days and how you adjusted and learned to fit in the system.

As for the first post stories, you need to set more ambiance and get the reader thinking he is there not listening to some one tell the story. The draw about a book of a average guy going to prison is the scary preconceptions the general population has of it. I would approach it form that stand point and write about how those preconceptions were true or false and what you did to mitigate them. Just like the other thread, no one would ask you until I did but rape is an obvious fear but it is also a touchy subject to ask someone. That will be a hook to drag the reader in. Did you first fear taking a shower , etc.

I'm not a writer (except for my adventures in the Cracker Barrel) but I do read a lot so I hope this helps.

[continuity]

Interesting stuff.

[doubloon]

The preconceived ideas and the paradigm shift adjusting to prison life as mongo suggests would be an interesting take.

[ArevaloSOCOM]

This is an excellent thread.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to share your stories and info. Very interesting indeed.

[ArevaloSOCOM]

It's good that you are doing the stories about the people rather than about all the salatious sex and violence that is often the center piece of prison memoirs. Kind of like the way my Grandfather tells stories about the people, places and things he saw in the infantry in the South Pacific during WWII, but not about the blood and guts. There are human stories worth telling that don't require a bloodbath in the retelling, even though it was there.

Thanks. That's exactly what I'm trying to do. I want to humanize the inmates and show what day-to-day life is actually like. It may not be exciting, but it's real.

It's good, it makes them human.

[jlwilliams]

I have an interesting/ funny one about the preconceived notions of jail.

A buddy of mine had a two week incarceration (state facility in a state with only one) for a probation violation. He's not a violent guy, not really a criminal. He's just an excentric guy who got into some trouble, took a plea deal with probation, then let his mouth and additude get the best of him. Anyway, he gets home from his two weeks and I drop by to say hello. Right off the bat, I guess all the guys had been busting his balls about the stereotypical prison rape stuff. I ask him How he's doing, how was it.

Him: "I'm fine and no, I didn't get raped"

Me: "Cool. I didn't ask"

Him:"Good"

Me: After a short pause "Don't worry about it"

Him: "What do you mean?"

Me:"I mean don't worry about it"

Him:"Don't worry about what?"

Me: "Don't worry that you didn't get it in the ass"

Him: "What the F--k?"

Me: "I'm just saying, it doesn't mean they didn't find you attractive or anything. Just don't worry about it"

Him: "F--k you man."

Me: "So you think I'm better looking than you?"

Him: "Dude, I hate you"

Me: "Most people do"

Him: "F--k you." pause "Want a soda?"

Me: "Sure"

Then we start talking about regular stuff and how much two weeks out of life costs.

Typical guy stuff. His legal problems just serve as a basis for the ball busting. It's all about the ball bust. It's all in good fun. I'll bet when you came home some of your friends took the opportunity to make a joke at your expense. That is, people who have known you long enough and well enough to joke around. This guy and I go back 20 or so years, I wouldn't be that familiar with someone I didn't feel apropriate doing so with.

Just seemed like a brief story you guys might get a chuckle out of.