Need Help Identifying 1800's Colt Revolvers

[paco ramirez]

Figured this thread would get the most exposure here. I bought these a few days ago for very cheap. Both are definitely from the 1800's. I'm trying to identify the models and determine their value. These are the only pictures I have for now, I'll attempt to get better ones soon.

This one with the octagonal barrel is ~36 cal. This one has all its parts as far as I can tell and is still fire-able.



This one with the round barrel is ~44 cal. It has no lever under the barrel and no hammer spring tension. Both the barrel and cylinder may have had markings at one point but are no longer distinguishable as far as I can tell. I don't know what I should be looking for though anyway. Could even be a clone from the 1800's, I have no idea.






This next picture is of the grip on the round barrel model. Obviously I'm skeptical. The chances are astronomical that he owned it at some point. The front strap of this revolver is stamped 1847 which is the same year he was born. I bought both of these revolvers for the story that came with them. The guy I bought them from had a great grandfather (Squire Duree I believe was his name) who owned a ranch in Kansas City, Missouri in the 1800's. One or both of these Colts were "found" on the ranch property at some point and given to his great grandfather. Based on the picture below you can see who the supposed previous owner was of the round barrel model. In person the carving looks as old as the revolver.

The octagonal barrel model was said to have belonged to Robert Ford, the guy that killed Jesse James. Obviously there's a lot of story in this story, and chances are that it's all bullshit. But I bought them for the story, be it true or false. They're still cool pieces of history.

[driver6814]

What was it P.T. Barnum used to say?

[paco ramirez]

What was it P.T. Barnum used to say?

Lol yup. I brought them into the gun store I worked at and every single customer that saw the Colts thought it was really Jesse James' gun. It was entertaining.

[lilfuzzybuny]

well for shits and giggles you could call the national firearms museum and get in touch with a cureator and swap emails and see what you got. or of course you could keep the curiousity and mystique i guess

[rogerme]

I bought a old colt years ago that had Jesse James engraved on the barrel. I had no doubt it was fake. To my amazement after a talk with a guy from colt and a few other folks I found a record of the guy who did the engraving and and it was in fact done for Jesse James. Of course this Jesse was a shop owner in AZ not the one we all know a pair had been engraved for him by his wife but I only ever had the one. This may in fact may have been the real owner but not the "one"...

[Libertarian_Geek]

I've heard that Zerelda James (his mother) was a source of many fakes. She would sell purposefully manufactured memorabilia for a nice profit.

[paco ramirez]

The octagon barrel revolver is identified as a Colt Model 1851 Navy. The round barrel revolver is identified as a Colt Model 1860 Army.

I plan on getting a letter through the Colt Archive Service for these guns. That way I can see where they were originally shipped and all of that stuff.

I've heard that Zerelda James (his mother) was a source of many fakes. She would sell purposefully manufactured memorabilia for a nice profit.

I'd never heard that before, very interesting. I'm sure there are a whole lot of fakes floating around everywhere. I'd read that in 1875 the Pinkertons threw an incendiary device into their house and it killed one of Jesse's half brothers, and his mother Zerelda lost one of her arms. I'd imagine it's difficult to make fakes with only one arm, but I'm sure she made plenty of money doing it.

[rogerme]

The octagon barrel revolver is identified as a Colt Model 1851 Navy. The round barrel revolver is identified as a Colt Model 1860 Army.

I plan on getting a letter through the Colt Archive Service for these guns. That way I can see where they were originally shipped and all of that stuff.

I've heard that Zerelda James (his mother) was a source of many fakes. She would sell purposefully manufactured memorabilia for a nice profit.

I'd never heard that before, very interesting. I'm sure there are a whole lot of fakes floating around everywhere. I'd read that in 1875 the Pinkertons threw an incendiary device into their house and it killed one of Jesse's half brothers, and his mother Zerelda lost one of her arms. I'd imagine it's difficult to make fakes with only one arm, but I'm sure she made plenty of money doing it.

Almost every book and show about him includes this fact. She woudl buy used guns for cheap and sell them to folks who came by to see his house and grave for a nice profit along with many other items she claimed where his. Apparently she would even give letters as proof of there origin at times.