Scouts - voted to keep homosexuals form being leaders. Dumb.

[silencertalk]

How would you vote?

Here is my take... Leaders are already vetted and background checked. It is clearly incorrect to automatically prohibit homosexuals from being Scout leaders. That can be factored in to the normal selection process if one wants, but a blanket ban is like a zero tolerance policy - just dumb.

It is the same issue as with mandatory minimum sentences. I am against them.

[morris]

Yea I know this may sound archaic but scouting is in part about teaching boys to be men, homosexuality seems counterproductive to that goal to me.

[doubloon]

Teaching them to be "men" is too vague.

It's about teaching them responsibility, confidence, courtesy, honor and more. It's not about teaching them to be "men" but teaching them what it means to be a man.

I would have concerns about an overtly gay scout leader but they are essentially the same concerns I would have about a homophobe or a chauvinistic leader.

On the other hand having a gay boy scout leader seems a bit like having male girl scout leader.

[bakerjw]

My argument has always been, "Why can't I be a girl scout leader?"

There are gays in the BSA. Well hidden ones but they are there and they ARE pedophiles. IMHO a gay man out camping with young boys is a pedophile incident waiting to happen.

[poikilotrm]

On the other hand having a GAY boy scout leader seems a bit like having male girl scout leader.

That's the concern.

[ronin111]

My argument has always been, "Why can't I be a girl scout leader?"

There are gays in the BSA. Well hidden ones but they are there and they ARE pedophiles. IMHO a GAY man out camping with young boys is a pedophile incident waiting to happen.

I think this is an overly homophobic viewpoint. I'm sure there are pedophiles in the BSA that aren't homosexual too. If someone is homosexual that does not necessarily mean they are a pedophile or have any tendencies toward it, they same is true of a non-homosexual.

As a private organization I believe the BSA should be able to set it's own policies. But the federal government should not provide support or endorse an organization that is discriminatory.

[rogerme]

How would you vote?

Here is my take... Leaders are already vetted and background checked. It is clearly incorrect to automatically prohibit homosexuals from being Scout leaders. That can be factored in to the normal selection process if one wants, but a blanket ban is like a zero tolerance policy - just dumb.

It is the same issue as with mandatory minimum sentences. I am against them.

As a Jew I understand discrimination. That said this is America. The boy scouts is a PRIVATE organization and thus should be free to make there own rules. You agreeing with it is not as relevant as your support for there RIGHT to do so. There are gays in the scouts they just are not preaching about being gay. Many parents even those who can sway pretty far left have a ideological change when it come to there children. You do not like to policy then you do not have to be involved nor let your kids join nobody is forcing anyone to be in the scouts. However the fact that this is there policy and has been for a long time but there are still kids lining up to join and parents both supporting and pushing them to do so says that PC or not many accept this.

[robpiat]

I don't think they'd let a male hang out, sleep, etc alone with a bunch of girl scouts

[silencertalk]

Yea I know this may sound archaic but scouting is in part about teaching boys to be men, homosexuality seems counterproductive to that goal to me.

So don't pick an effeminate scout leader. Right now, even if they were the best for the job, the choice is not yours to make. You are forbidden to consider it.

[silencertalk]

IMHO a GAY man out camping with young boys is a pedophile incident waiting to happen.

And therefore a straight man camping with girls is a pedophile incident waiting to happen?

Why not allow lesbians then?

Scouting has rules - always two or more adults with anyone. It also has background checks.

[silencertalk]

I don't think they'd let a male hang out, sleep, etc alone with a bunch of girl scouts

Why are females allowed to be boy scout leaders? My wife is one.

[ick]

I think the survey is a false choice and the system sticking it's nose where it doesn’t belong.

At the core, it assumes there is no difference between the characteristic of a life choice like homosexuality and any other characteristic a person might have like eye color, right/left handed, gender, skin color, height, religious preference..... or any other differentiating descriptive term we can name.

Whilst these things might be all the same in some people's minds with a whitewashed secular moral view of the world, these differentiations are not the same thing to many, many people.

I see no problem with giving an organization the freedom to differentiate themselves with a standard such as this one.

The libertarian in me says mind your own business and go form your own "gay-leader boy scouts allowed organization" if you want.

Nothing is stopping you.

[silencertalk]

I ran a poll before on if people here felt that homosexuality was a choice or if you were born with it. Most people said it was a choice.

However, it is clear and obvious to me that homosexuality is not a choice (for the same reason that I can't choose to be attracted to men, I just am not).

So, knowing I am correct on that, I will put forth - banning homosexuals is the same as banning people by race.

By the way, I think freedom of association should be legal in all cases, which means it is ok for the Scouts to make this decision, but they are incorrect - and I think it is a little late in the game for them to not realize they are incorrect.

[silencertalk]

The libertarian in me says mind your own business and go form your own "gay-leader boy scouts allowed organization" if you want.

Nothing is stopping you.

True, but the flip side is that if the Boy Scouts were run by libertarians they probably would not have banned 100% of acknowledged homosexuals to begin with.

Libertarians are not big on no-thinking zero tolerance policies, mandatory minimum sentencing, etc.

[rogerme]

However, it is clear and obvious to me that homosexuality is not a choice (for the same reason that I can't choose to be attracted to men, I just am not).

While I agree with that statement on the face of it however circumstances dictate actions. To see this simply look to prisons. The percentage of straight people going in is smaller then the gay activities going on while inside of course many revert back to being straight when freed. So that said people can choose to be gay or at the very least participate in gay activities ( same thing to me ) by choice.

[morris]

Yea I know this may sound archaic but scouting is in part about teaching boys to be men, homosexuality seems counterproductive to that goal to me.

So don't pick an effeminate scout leader. Right now, even if they were the best for the job, the choice is not yours to make. You are forbidden to consider it.

I might be okay with that. Don't ask don't tell, but then we see what that evolved into.

I just don't want some guy sashaying around my young boys telling them that that's the way to act or have these boys start emulating any of the homosexual behaviors.

[ick]

Shall the left-handed club be forced to allow the right-handed into memberhip? In leadership positions?

Say it ain't so.

[silencertalk]

However, it is clear and obvious to me that homosexuality is not a choice (for the same reason that I can't choose to be attracted to men, I just am not).

While I agree with that statement on the face of it however circumstances dictate actions. To see this simply look to prisons. The percentage of straight people going in is smaller then the GAY activities going on while inside of course many revert back to being straight when freed. So that said people can choose to be GAY or at the very least participate in GAY activities ( same thing to me ) by choice.

That is not exactly the same as sexual preference.

[silencertalk]

Shall the left-handed club be forced to allow the right-handed into memberhip? In leadership positions?

Say it ain't so.

No.

But I did not mean this thread to be about if the Boy Scouts should have to allow homosexuals.

This thread is - was as it the correct decision for national Scouting to tell a local Scout group that even if some lesbian den mother was clearly the best person for the job and who they wanted to be their leader - that they are not free to pick her.

And I know why they did it - because they believe it is a lifestyle choice and a moral issue - as do most people on this forum.

And I am not going to get around that, as it is based on deeply held religious beliefs.

However, I think it is just nuts to think people choose who they are attracted to. A homosexual man does not have a choice in who they are attracted to any more than I do.

[silencertalk]

I just don't want some guy sashaying around my young boys telling them that that's the way to act or have these boys start emulating any of the homosexual behaviors.

You should only pick and use a scout leader you want as a role model for your kids. I still see this thread about as if a local Scout group should be forbidden to pick a homosexual leader that they like or not.

[Blaubart]

I didn't vote in the poll because I didn't agree with either option.

Had you phrased the first option "Pedophiles should never have any possibility to be a scout leader", I would have selected that option.

But Homosexual != Pedophile, just like gun owner does not equal murderer, or silencer owner does not equal hit man.

[rogerme]

However, it is clear and obvious to me that homosexuality is not a choice (for the same reason that I can't choose to be attracted to men, I just am not).

While I agree with that statement on the face of it however circumstances dictate actions. To see this simply look to prisons. The percentage of straight people going in is smaller then the GAY activities going on while inside of course many revert back to being straight when freed. So that said people can choose to be GAY or at the very least participate in GAY activities ( same thing to me ) by choice.

That is not exactly the same as sexual preference.

It is however a CHOICE.

[silencertalk]

It is however a CHOICE.

True, but homosexuality is not a choice. There are tons of women in porn movies who have sex with women, but that does not make them lesbians or even bisexual.

[rogerme]

There are tons of women in porn movies who have sex with women, but that does not make them lesbians or even bisexual.

Sort of does.

[usmcvet0331]

My argument has always been, "Why can't I be a girl scout leader?"

There are gays in the BSA. Well hidden ones but they are there and they ARE pedophiles. IMHO a GAY man out camping with young boys is a pedophile incident waiting to happen.

That is ridiculous. The Same logic says that if I am around little girls, as a heterosexual man, I am a sex assault waiting t happen. As a heterosexual man I have no more desire to have sex with little girls tan a homosexual male does with little boys.

Pedophiles deserve a lead Asprin. I have no use for them at all. No jail no rehabilitation. Get convicted, get the death penalty.