How old is the Earth?

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How old is the Earth?

About 4.5 billion years old.
46
77%
About 6,000 years old.
4
7%
Could be either of the above, I am not sure.
10
17%
 
Total votes: 60

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Munk
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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by Munk » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:30 pm

Fulmen wrote:
Munk wrote:Science is indeed a discipline based on provisional knowledge. Being as such, nothing is ever really outside of the possibility of being revised/refuted/etc.
Yes and no. Theories and estimates may change, but not the observations. Sure some observations or measurements will turn out to be wrong, but the bulk of them are correct and will not change over time. The interpretations however are always "in play".
Many terms have a slightly different meaning in science. A scientific theory is far more than "just a theory", it's a model that can accurately describe the way nature works. It's an hypothesis that have been verified by observations to the point where there is little doubt of it's correctness, although it may turn out to be just a special case of a more fundamental "law".
The term law is also misleading, as laws are something WE define and can break if we want to. The laws of nature are not the models we use to describe them but the nature of nature, the unchanging and unbreakable way of the universe. These are forever hidden from us, we can never know them for sure. All we can do is build better and better, yet fundamentally flawed models in an attempt to understand the world around us.
I more or less agree. The observations do not change, but they may be incomplete, or we may be misinterpreting what those observations are actually telling us. This is the case with spurious correlations. A great example of a spurious correlation has to do with hand size and shoplifting. If you were to gather data on the hand sizes of convicted shoplifters in any region, and then compare that with the average hand size of the general population in that region, you would find that shoplifters have larger hands. This is actually true, but the connection between hand size and thievery is not direct. The real connection is that, overall, the majority of shoplifters are male. Since males have larger hands than females on average, this creates an indirect correlation between hand size and shoplifting. However, if you didn't already know that, you have pretty solid ground to formulate a theory suggesting that, the larger your hands, the more likely you'll engage in shoplifting.

Any legitimate scientific theory is based off of objective and repeatable observations, however the causal link between observations is something people simply have to infer. Evidence is mute, so we have to speak for it the best we can, but sometimes we get it wrong -- either because we don't know the whole truth, or because we misinterpret the correlations. The more we can interconnect a theory to other theories, those of which are interconnected to yet other theories, the more likely that correlations are not spurious. But, the chance is never zero...and the more fundamental the phenomenon, the greater the impact a new discovery can make. Take Newtonian Physics for example. Almost everything we do (on a macro level) seems to support the validity of Newtonian physics...and that's A LOT of supporting evidence. Then we went and discovered quantum physics, which essentially turned Newtonian physics on its head (as well as everything that is built upon it). Newtonian physics is still true in a proximate manner, but its principles may not actually apply to certain phenomena as it "should", if it were completely true.

On a side note, I hate the "just a theory" argument people will try to use to discredit well-established scientific principles. I often see this being used with regard to evolution. While its true evolution is a theory, people have a gross misunderstanding of what that actually means in the scientific community. They erroneously equivocate "theory" with "guess". However, because evolution is just a theory ( :roll: ), I can only respond in one way... I say: "That is indeed true, yet so is gravity."

(most people think its a "law", but yet again, not really understand what that word means in a scientific context).

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by doubloon » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:39 pm

Evolution is not a theory, it is a fact. Species adapt constantly, there are many evolving in front of our eyes.

The evolution of man from a "lower" life form is theory. For all we can actually prove a crew of higher life forms crash landed here thousands of years ago and devolved into modern day man
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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by Fulmen » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:32 am

Munk wrote:Evidence is mute
Well put.

As for evolution (including the origin of man), it is indeed a fact. 'Evolution by natural selection' however is a theory, a good solid and well documented theory.

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by Libertarian_Geek » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:57 pm

Fulmen wrote:
Munk wrote:Evidence is mute
Well put.

As for evolution (including the origin of man), it is indeed a fact. 'Evolution by natural selection' however is a theory, a good solid and well documented theory.
<pedantic> You mean Moot, not Mute.</pedantic>
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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by Munk » Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:02 pm

Libertarian_Geek wrote:
Fulmen wrote:
Munk wrote:Evidence is mute
Well put.

As for evolution (including the origin of man), it is indeed a fact. 'Evolution by natural selection' however is a theory, a good solid and well documented theory.
<pedantic> You mean Moot, not Mute.</pedantic>
No, I mean mute (as in, it can't speak for itself.)

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by -k- » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:07 pm

Munk wrote: On a side note, I hate the "just a theory" argument people will try to use to discredit well-established scientific principles.
Science/scientists often do a poor job of admitting how much/how good the evidence is for a theory.

Scientists are often proud and emotionally attached to their theory. I believe in the scientific principle, but it's not my religion and I can also see human faults in the process that cannot be removed because humans are doing the work.

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by Libertarian_Geek » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:27 pm

-k- wrote:
Munk wrote: On a side note, I hate the "just a theory" argument people will try to use to discredit well-established scientific principles.
Science/scientists often do a poor job of admitting how much/how good the evidence is for a theory.

Scientists are often proud and emotionally attached to their theory. I believe in the scientific principle, but it's not my religion and I can also see human faults in the process that cannot be removed because humans are doing the work.
I'll avoid making such a generalized stereotype, but yes, such scientists exist. How they get/maintain funding has a lot to do with how biased the results are. Not to mention what sensationalistic journalism tends to do to scientific research.
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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by Ben Walker » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:52 pm

Why?
It's not about how much you earn but about how much you spend .

The best days in life are casting a line & just sitting there waiting for it to move

At times life calls for a little blue pill .

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by Libertarian_Geek » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:56 pm

Ben Walker wrote:Why?
Because basing your mental model on someone because of a stereotype often leads to unfair treatment. Even if the stereotype is supported by statistics, it doesn't mean that every person you encounter follows the stereotype described by his/her profession (or any other attribute by which stereotypes are placed).

Yes, stereotypes exist for a reason, but reason should be your ultimate guide.
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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by doubloon » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:43 pm

Elitist Libertarian jerks. :mrgreen:
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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by Libertarian_Geek » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:59 pm

doubloon wrote:Elitist Libertarian jerks. :mrgreen:
You know how we are ;)
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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by trey_phish83 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:06 am

silvers, isn't this the same poll i had years ago with the question 'does god exist?'
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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by bakerjw » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:03 am

Ah. Now I see why the 2 year old thread was resurrected.
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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by doubloon » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:50 am

I think I remember that thread, that was a good thread.
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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by silencertalk » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:07 am

trey_phish83 wrote:silvers, isn't this the same poll i had years ago with the question 'does god exist?'
Absolutely not.

It is very possible to believe in God without believing in some of the teachings of Christianity. Case in point - consistently 60% of forum members vote for Christian concepts, but only 20% believe this one.

God could have created the Earth 4.5 billion years ago.

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by Molon labe » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:40 am

what do you mean by (this one?)

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by silencertalk » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:46 am

Not sure what you are asking.

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by Molon labe » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:51 am

when you said only 20% believe this one

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by silencertalk » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:52 am

The results of the poll - this thread is a poll. It is interesting that 58% of people believe Mary was a virgin but yet only 1/3 that amount believe that the Earth is under 10,000 years old.

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by Molon labe » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:21 am

Gotcha, (I didn't vote so it didn't show results)

Very few people that call themselves Christians identify with new earth christians, also the bible doesn't say anything about how old the earth is. It does say things like, "to the Lord a day is the same as a thousands years."

Not everything in the bible is literal, a quick personal story. One day I was reading and came across the scripture that said "if your eye causes you to sin pluck it out, for it is better to enter the Kingdom of God with one eye, than have two and go to hell."

I stopped and prayed, ask God what that meant, he said ALL Christians make up the body of Christ. If one part of the body is causing you to sin, it's better to get rid of that person instead of having that person pull you away from your destiny.
And by get rid of meant stop associating/hang out with.

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by silencertalk » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:29 am

Does that mean that Adam and Eve is also not popular as literal?

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by doubloon » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:52 am

So what you're saying is nobody actually knows which parts of the bible are literal and which are figurative or parable.

And when the bible says god created the earth in 6 days it could mean 6,000 years or 6,000,000 years?

And the idea that someone can just add up all the ages of all the descendants of Adam and Eve to figure out how much time has passed since the creation of the earth won't work because maybe none of that data is factual?
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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by silencertalk » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:58 am

doubloon wrote:And when the bible says god created the earth in 6 days it could mean 6,000 years or 6,000,000 years?
A day is 1000 years would be 2.19 billion years old.

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Re: How old is the Earth?

Post by silencertalk » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:02 am

If there was a poll about Adam and Eve, would it have the same percentage as this 6,000 year poll?

If there was a poll about Creationism, would it have the same results as Adam and Eve? I am not sure. I can see God creating the Earth, but I can't believe Adam and Eve - so I would be interested to know if the percentages stay the same.

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