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 Post subject: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:45 pm 
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Senior Silent Operator

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:53 pm
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Location: NH
Not sure if I miss the old one yet.

UPS arrived today so I grabbed a Beretta 21 and headed out back. The first round almost sounded like a gunshot!! All other shots were nice and quiet. Thinking it might be the host, I took a Walther P-22 out with the same result.

After about 40 rounds through the can, the first shot started to mellow out a little (but it's got a loud FRP). Maybe it likes to be run a little dirty? Sounded best on the Ruger MKII with a Paclite upper and the Sig Mosquito. All rounds fired were Federal bulk, never needed to run subs in any of these hosts.

No time to try it on the AR or 10/22, I have to get to work now. Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:55 pm 
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The SS Sparrow and AAC Prodigy have almost identical FRP per SilencerCo #s

Yes, the FRP is loud at 123 dB for both.

I should make bumper stickers "I shoulda got a Kodiak"

Try the nose spray bottle trick.. One spritz of H2O in the muzzle end (hold vertical and spray up into the silencer) will eliminate the FRP and be dry after 2 shots. Very easy to do with almost no down side.

Try it.

My SS Sparrow in in transit to my SOT as I write. I can't wait to have a .22 can that I can shoot all day and not worry about it getting stuck closed. To bad the BATF&E is so far behind!

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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:53 pm
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Location: NH
Great........have to wet it for a quiet first shot :( The first round in the old design was nothing compared to this. So is the can quieter after it gets a little dirty or was that just my imagination? I was removing it from the muzzle and blowing out all the smoke trying to duplicate the LOUD noise I heard when it was new, but it seemed to quiet down a bit.

OAL= :D
Weight= :)
Ease of cleaning= :D
FRP= :shock: :o :(


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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:17 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/user/Silencerco# ... 0ABj3lrbrI

FRP in Old Sparrow vs New SS Sparrow

------------- old---------new
P-22----- 124.3 ------122.3
Paclite--- 127.1------ 123.1
10/11 ----114.7 ------ 113.3 (virtually no FRP on 10/22)
AVG ------ 122.03 ---- 119.57 =2.463 dB less FRP average

dB 10 shot average

-------------- old ------- new
P-22 ------ 119 -------- 116.8
Paclite ----121.4 -----115.45
10/22 ----- 114.8 ------114.25 (no FRP on 10/22 3rd shot was louder than 1st shot)
AVG --------118.4 ------ 115.5 = 2.9 dB less

Summery.. FRP is less on all hosts with new SS Sparrow
10 shot average is less on all hosts with new SS Sparrow


FYI my very 1st shot with my new core Prodigy also sounded louder than ANY subsequent FRP shots.. Coating? Shiny? Cold? Who knows.. Maybe it's just in my mind.

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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:03 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:53 pm
Posts: 136
Location: NH
JohnInNH wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Silencerco#p/u/18/Y0ABj3lrbrI

FRP in Old Sparrow vs New SS Sparrow

------------- old---------new
P-22----- 124.3 ------122.3
Paclite--- 127.1------ 123.1
10/11 ----114.7 ------ 113.3 (virtually no FRP on 10/22)
AVG ------ 122.03 ---- 119.57 =2.463 dB less FRP average

dB 10 shot average

-------------- old ------- new
P-22 ------ 119 -------- 116.8
Paclite ----121.4 -----115.45
10/22 ----- 114.8 ------114.25 (no FRP on 10/22 3rd shot was louder than 1st shot)
AVG --------118.4 ------ 115.5 = 2.9 dB less

Summery.. FRP is less on all hosts with new SS Sparrow
10 shot average is less on all hosts with new SS Sparrow
.


Which is why I went for the upgrade.....I've read and seen all this information before making the decision to upgrade.

I never noticed that much difference from the first to last shot with the old core, maybe it's just my ears. It did take me a while to adjust to the Ti-Rant 9 and with my current load (147gr MG bullet, 3.9gr WW231, CCI #500) I'm very happy with it's sound.

Looks like rain for the next couple of days, so I won't be able to shoot again for a for a while. Will try different ammo and hosts, maybe even break down and try some water. A range in the backyard makes this easy.


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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:55 am 
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Location: SW NH
.22 LR ammo consistency.

I don't know about you but my shot to shot consistency with some ammo, Remington Subsonic in particular, can be quite inconsistent. It may be possible the first shot you fired was a little hotter than the rest and may be why you have not had the same result again.

Granted I thought my very first shot was kinda loud too (but mine was from inside.) I am sure a lot is perception as well.

The SilencerCo tests do show that you should be getting about 2.5 dB less overall with the new can. It may take a bit to settle in. Lots of talk about a silencer that is squeaky clean vs one with a few 100 rounds being different and that some use will help to a point then at some point it will start to degrade and become louder.

I expect I will not be able to tell the difference between my Prodigy and the SS Sparrow untill it comes to cleaning time. Still the Prodigy is VERY light and now with the new core it may be more accurate.

John .. have you tested accuracy and POI shift with your new SS Sparrow? As I keep saying dB is not the only thing about a silencer that is important. It appears that the new Sparrow is very accurate and has little POI shift. FRP aside not much to bitch about.. The big question is blowback...

We should get together to compare the 2 .. The rain has postponed my accuracy testing

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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:53 pm
Posts: 136
Location: NH
The ammo? Exact same brand and lot numbers, I stocked up years ago.

FRP did seem to quiet down as I put more rounds through it. The Ruger/Paclite sounded better with this upgrade, it used to have a "snap" every shot.

Didn't have time to put anything on paper, just shot into my berm at 20 yards. Once the weather cooperates I'll shoot some groups. No blowback noticed in my limited shooting yesterday.

I'm in the Lakes Region if you're ever up or down this way.


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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:10 pm
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Location: East of the Cascades
John, what are you smoking? There ISNT a can lighter than the upgraded(aluminum serialized tube) Sparrow in regards to being dippable. 5.2oz stainless steel :D :D :D :mrgreen: Some want everything without giving up anything. If you want no FRP then get the mega silo lead pipe Kodiak 9+oz at 6.5".


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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:48 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:00 am
Posts: 1246
Location: Louisiana
sputzie wrote:
John, what are you smoking? There ISNT a can lighter than the upgraded(aluminum serialized tube) Sparrow in regards to being dippable. 5.2oz stainless steel :D :D :D :mrgreen: Some want everything without giving up anything. If you want no FRP then get the mega silo lead pipe Kodiak 9+oz at 6.5".


Element is lighter and just as dip able as the sparrow.


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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:25 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:35 pm
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Location: tennessee
Is this a "new" sparrow or just an old sparrow with a "new" core?


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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:28 am 
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sputzie wrote:
John, what are you smoking? There ISNT a can lighter than the upgraded(aluminum serialized tube) Sparrow in regards to being dippable. 5.2oz stainless steel :D :D :D :mrgreen: Some want everything without giving up anything. If you want no FRP then get the mega silo lead pipe Kodiak 9+oz at 6.5".


I said nothing about the Prodigy being dip-able.. I said it was light. It is the lightest of the bunch AND gets 39-40 dB.

A SWR Spector is 2x the weight of the Prodigy. The Spector has been one of the best and most popular silencers for years. It is dipable too! but tips the scales at 8.5 oz

I still may get an Essence. No FRP Light and maybe one of the lowest blowback .22 silencers. A mono core that gets 41 dB reduction is only 4.3 oz and has very little FRP the same as an Element Yep, the Essence is 6.5" but that's not a big deal. Since it is 2 oz lighter than a New Sparrow only .6 oz more than the feather weight Prodigy.

The Essence will be used on my 10/22, and High Standard which is a heavy pistol so the 6.5" length of the Essence is meaningless to me .. They will also balance well with a Kodiak TL. It's a toss up between the 2.

Sure the Kodiak, which is all Stainless steel, is 9 oz, but that is no lead pipe. It is only .5 oz more than a SWR Spector.. and is 22 hornet rated. I don't need that so a TL will do me at 6.1 oz which is LESS than my SS Sparrow

Weights
Prodigy -- SS Sparrow -- Element --- Essence -- Kodiak TL -- Kodiak --- SWR Spector
3.6 Oz ------ 6.5 oz--------- 4.3 oz ----- 4.2 oz ------- 6.1 oz ------ 9 oz ------- 8.5 oz

Lengths
5.79" -------- 5.08"---------- 5.25"-------- 6.5" --------- 6.5" -------- 6.5" -------- 6"

dB reduction
- 40 dB ------ 41dB --------- 41 dB ------- 41 dB------- 40 dB-------39 dB ------ 40.5 dB

I have a prodigy, one of the lightest .22 silencers, and it also has close to the best dB reduction at 40dB. I also own a SS Sparrow. Sure it's heavy and has some FRP but it is quiet and the easiest silencer to clean. It is also 5.7 + 22 Hornet rated.

The Lead pipe Sparrow :roll: also has little if no POI shift and is very accurate.. School is out on blowback till I can test it. If it is similar to the Kodiak family it is an over winner if 6.5 oz is OK with you. It is heaver than the Kodiak TL. ;)

The Element, Prodigy and Essence are the winners of the light weight race. The Essence is easy to clean, has the least blowback, and has 41dB reduction like the Element. The Essence may be the best all around .22 silencer.


I think I want to get one of the Liberty Kodiak family of silencers.. This is because I want the least amount of blowback ... so I can have the longest duty cycle of operation in my semi autos, as possible. Dependability is important. Little to no blowback is an important factor in maintaining reliability.

Then I would have the 3 top silencers in all categories, while still being the top dB reduction silencers. They are all about 40 dB reduction.

Least weight (AAC Prodigy), strength/cleanable/short (SilencerCo SS Sparrow), and least blowback (Liberty Kodiak TL or Essence)

IMHO these are some of the top .22 silencers of today... Each having very strong points. You could change the Prodigy for the Element as it is less than an oz more, is shorter, has less FRP, and is 1.5-2 dB quieter. It is a tad more difficult to take apart and clean. But you can dip it. I am not a fan of the hazmat caused by that process. So cleaning the Prodigy is not all that much harder than the Element with all the parts.

With the new Gen III core the Prodigy is back on my recommended list. But the AAC Element is a hard little silencer to beat .. Quiet, no FRP, light, steel, small... There are things I like more about the Prodigy and things about the Element I like better. It's a close buggy race.

Now enter the liberty Kodiak family of silencers. Really all you need is a SS Sparrow and an Essence. With those two silencers you have the best of everything. Super light, no blowback, no FRP, 41 dB reduction = Essence. Multi-cal up to 5.7, Easiest to clean, no POI shift, accurate, compact, and dipable = new Sparrow.. With those 2 silencers you have all the bases covered.

You could change it to a Kodiak and a Element... Both pairs cover most all requirements

We have a new player in the game with the new Surefire .22 S silencer. But I know very little about it. No data available yet.. it also looks complicated and difficult to clean.

The SS Sparow and Liberty Essence

Or

Liberty Kodiak and a AAC Element

Get either pair and you have everything covered.

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Last edited by JohnInNH on Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:15 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:17 am
Posts: 1741
Location: Louisiana
Just sent my Sparrow off for the upgrade yesterday. I didnt realize the numbers were that much lower, looking forward to it on my pac-lite!

What did the original sparrow weigh?

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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:53 pm
Posts: 136
Location: NH
Had a little time before work to run another 100+ rounds and everything sounds normal now. Must have been a new suppressor break in period (?) I wonder if the same thing will happen once it's dipped?


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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:18 pm 
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My SS Sparrow arrived at my SOT and I just mailed the paperwork in to the BATF&E...

I got to check it out. .. It's small and heavy. A work of art. VERY well made. It's going to be a long wait. :( I had no time to test it at his range.. TAX time for me.

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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:29 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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It is "poppy" when new. It gets better and better when dirty. It doesnt appear to be as bad after the first few hundred rounds, even after cleaned. Our numbers on frp show same as old sparrow, but the subsequent shots are quieter, making that first one seem loud. I noticed this killing small furry creatures with the prototype. It gets better and better :D

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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:50 pm 
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Today was SilencerCo day for me.

Not only did my SS Sparrow show up at my SOT .. UPS dropped of my repaired 45 Osprey

I'm back in silencers again. :mrgreen:

It's all good to go. Thanks SilencerCo for the super FAST turnaround.

It's going to be a LONG wait for the Sparrow. :|

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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:00 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Las Vegas
kwikrnu wrote:
Is this a "new" sparrow or just an old sparrow with a "new" core?


I think is the old sparrow with a new core..


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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:57 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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I just got done dipping the core and shells of the new SS Sparrow after 3000 rounds with my M-11/22 SMG. The first three chambers had big chunks of lead that were easy to remove. The rest of the lead dissolved in the dip in less than 16 hours. :D

I shot many 200 round drum dumps for testing. The can still came apart by hand. The O-rings held up well. FRP and weight were not a problem for me in anyway on the open bolt SMG.

I really like it. Good job Silencerco!

I'm going to go for 5K before cleaning next time.

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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:11 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:10 am
Posts: 419
Location: Melbourne, FL
strobro32 wrote:
I just got done dipping the core and shells of the new SS Sparrow after 3000 rounds with my M-11/22 SMG. The first three chambers had big chunks of lead that were easy to remove. The rest of the lead dissolved in the dip in less than 16 hours. :D

I shot many 200 round drum dumps for testing. The can still came apart by hand. The O-rings held up well. FRP and weight were not a problem for me in anyway on the open bolt SMG.

I really like it. Good job Silencerco!

I'm going to go for 5K before cleaning next time.


Matt, could you describe the dip process in more detail? What are you dipping it in? My "cleaning" the demo can has been nothing more than just hosing the thing down with WD40 and a toobthbrush

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NFA Sales & Transfers, Silencerco Stocking Distributor, AAC, SigSauer, Gemtech, Rock River Arms Stocking Dealer
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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:12 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:00 am
Posts: 1246
Location: Louisiana
GoingQuiet wrote:
strobro32 wrote:
I just got done dipping the core and shells of the new SS Sparrow after 3000 rounds with my M-11/22 SMG. The first three chambers had big chunks of lead that were easy to remove. The rest of the lead dissolved in the dip in less than 16 hours. :D

I shot many 200 round drum dumps for testing. The can still came apart by hand. The O-rings held up well. FRP and weight were not a problem for me in anyway on the open bolt SMG.

I really like it. Good job Silencerco!

I'm going to go for 5K before cleaning next time.


Matt, could you describe the dip process in more detail? What are you dipping it in? My "cleaning" the demo can has been nothing more than just hosing the thing down with WD40 and a toobthbrush


50/50 mix of hydrogen peroxide and white vineagar. Be careful not to get it on your skin and try not to breath it in. Also make sure you dispose of it properly.


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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:24 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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For anyone,


"The dip" is a 50/50 mix of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. DO NOT USE on aluminum or steel, just stainless steel or titanium.The dip disolves AL and Carbon steels. I'm pretty sure the tube of the Sparrow is parkerized carbon steel and can not be dipped.

Caution:
The used dip fluid and debris from the cleaning process is considered a hazardous material, since it creates lead acetate. Lead acetate can be absorbed through the skin and is know to cause reproductive harm in people. Always use waterproof gloves. I use disposable Nitrile gloves. While using the "dip" make sure it is in a well ventilated area and not sealed up in a closed container. Do not let the material find it's way into the ground water system (sewer, landfill)

Process:
1. Remove as much of the lead from the suppressor as you can with a brush or pick if possible.
2. Put the complete suppressor or parts or in a glass , PVC or stainless steel container. I use old spaghetti sauce jars. Be sure to keep the lid loose.
3. Change the liquid every 24 hours. I have gone as long as 60 hours for my Spectre without any damage.
4. Wipe the debris from the surfaces.
5. Let it dry completely and don't forget to put some antisieze on the threads before putting her back together.

You can dispose of the dip at your HazMat day at the local landfill. Be sure to label it "Lead Acetate". You might have to call them and ask when the next household hazardous waste day is. If you don't have one of those, take it with your used motor oil to your local Autozone, Advance autoparts or oil/tire change place and dispose of it that way...


The Spectre can be involved time wise but the SS Sparrow took less than 5 mins of my time. :)

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 Post subject: Re: First 100 rounds in "new" Sparrow
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:30 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:10 am
Posts: 419
Location: Melbourne, FL
I just want to say that the dip and my demo stainless sparrow went well. Dropped it in before dinner, checked it at midnight and it came out looking great!

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NFA Sales & Transfers, Silencerco Stocking Distributor, AAC, SigSauer, Gemtech, Rock River Arms Stocking Dealer
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