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 Post subject: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:23 pm 
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300 AAC BLACKOUT Frequently Asked Questions

300 AAC BLACKOUT is a 30 caliber solution for the AR rifle platform. It retains the normal 30 round capacity of USGI magazines, and does not require a new bolt. There are no changes to the rifle except for the barrel. Brass and ammo will be available at a lower cost than other larger-bore rifle cartridges for the AR15 - and the same rifle can shoot both full power ammo and suppressed subsonic ammo without needing any adjustments.

Q: I heard that the ballistics are about like 7.62x39mm. Why not just get an AR in 7.62x39mm?
A: AK ammo has too much of a taper to work well in the straight magazine well of an AR15. There have been attempts at making reliable magazines, but AK ammo really wants a curved mag. Also the taper of the cartridge has a lot of bolt-thrust, which - when combined with the large bolt face - will brake bolts too easily. AK ammo only works well in AKs.

Q: Is 300 AAC BLACKOUT a standard cartridge or a wildcat?

A: 300 AAC BLACKOUT was submitted to SAAMI, the small arms standards organization in June 2010. It was voted on by member companies, and approved on January 17th 2011. Any company can make ammo or rifles for it, and do not need permission or have to pay royalties, as long as they meet the specifications in the drawing.

Q: Why was 300 AAC BLACKOUT created when 300-221, 300 Fireball, and 300 Whisper® already existed?

A: There have been many versions of taking a 221 Fireball or 223 case and making it 30 caliber. Several of them have similar, but not identical chambers. In order to assure ammunition and firearm and ammunition compatibility and interchangeability, an industry standard was needed. This required picking a final set of specifications, and submitting it for industry consideration. In the United States, the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) governs small arms cartridge specifications. SAAMI does not accept proprietary or Trademarked cartridges. So a final set of specifications for what has previously been called 300-221 or 300 Fireball was submitted for consideration, and was approved. A clean start was needed.

A: Why was a new name created? Why not call it 300-221, 300 Fireball, or 300 Whisper®? 300 Whisper is a registered Trademark and proprietary to SSK Industries, and cannot be used without their permission. Additionally, several chamber reamer drawings exist that are called Whisper, and even with permission, if that name were to be used, one would have to design new ammunition for the most conservative of the existing chambers, limiting velocity potential for full power ammunition. Likewise, there are many different chambers called 300-221 and 300 Fireball, and there would be no way to guarantee that any ammunition labeled 30 Fireball or 300-221 would be safe in all of them, unless perhaps if it were significantly under loaded.

A: If one were to make ammunition or firearms for 300 AAC BLACKOUT, how must the product be marked?

A: SAAMI markings must be used. The actual cartridge name is “300 AAC BLACKOUT” or “300 AAC Blackout” Notice there is no “.” before the 300 (SAAMI cartridges do not begin with a decimal). The official SAAMI short name is “300 BLK”
“300 Blackout” and “300 AAC” are not allowed.

Q: How can I get the SAAMI drawing?

A: It will eventually be published on the http://www.saami.org website. Until that time, please contact Wanda Heckel at 203-426-4358 or wheckel at saami.org

Q: Can 300 AAC BLACKOUT be shot in a 300-221, 300 Fireball, or 300 Whisper® rifle?

A: Due to the variation in those chambers, that should be considered a potentially unsafe combination - much like shooting 5.56mm in a 223 chamber. Experimentation has shown that there is a several thousand psi difference in chamber pressure and pressure could exceed SAAMI limits of shot in alternate chambers.

Q: Can 300-221, 300 Fireball, or 300 Whisper® ammo be shot in a 300 AAC BLACKOUT chamber?
A: Because of the variation in those cartridges, a definite answer cannot be given. One exception is Hornady 300 Whisper ammo – which has been specifically tested to be within SAAMI specifications for 300 AAC BLACKOUT – and may be used in all 300 AAC BLACKOUT firearms.

Q: Since 300 AAC BLACKOUT may be loaded hotter – how much of a velocity gain is this?
A: That depends on the bullet weight, but in a standard 16 inch barrel and with a light-weight bullet, it is estimated to be about 40 fps. So 300 AAC BLACKOUT in a 14.5 inch barrel would be expected to match 300 Whisper® in a 16 inch barrel, if both were loaded to 55,000 psi. Likewise, 300 AAC BLACKOUT in a 16.5 inch barrel would likely match 300 Whisper® in an 18 inch barrel.

Q:What the best twist rate?
A: The standard SAAMI twist rate is 1:8, which seems to be the best for a 50/50 mix of subsonic and full power ammo. If you are sure you will never shoot subsonic ammo, you could consider 1:12 - however there is currently no proof that would offer an advantage. In fact, for very light / short bullets - 110 grain Sierra® and Berger®, 1:8 twist factory test barrels were averaging 0.8 to 0.9 MOA at 100 yards for 25 shots (three groups of five shots each). It is important to note that no flyers were discarded from this testing, and that three shot groups - as people casually do - would show a much smaller group size. 5x5 groups, however, is probably the minimal amount of testing for having a meaningful basis for comparison.

Q: What is the standard barrel length for 300 AAC BLACKOUT?
A: The SAAMI standard is 16 inches instead of the normal 24 inches for other rifles cartridges. We felt that 24 inches was unrealistic, and would lead to inflated velocity numbers on factory ammo, if the ammo were reported for a long barrel length that no one actually used.

Q: What about short barrels?
A: 300 AAC BLACKOUT, due to the larger bore than 223, is very efficient in shorter barrels, and we have had good functioning results with AR barrels down to 6.2 inches.

Q: What is the longest practical barrel?
A: The velocity does go up and up – even with barrels over 24 inches. However, few people will want a barrel over 20 inches because the tradeoff between velocity and length has diminishing returns.

Q: Is an adjustable gas block required to shoot subsonic unsuppressed, subsonic suppressed, full power unsuppressed, and full power suppressed?
A: It depends on the brand. An AAC will shoot all four configurations wihout any adjustment needed when using Remington or similar ammunition. No doubt several top makers will have products which will do this, but not all will.

Q: Should I look for an AR upper with carbine or pistol gas?
A: First, there is no barrel length which works with mid-length or rifle gas. The choices are carbine or pistol. For barrels under 16 inches, pistol is needed - the bore is larger than 5.56mm so the gas pressure drops off faster. For barrels 16 inches or longer, carbine or pistol gas will work.

Q: Well then - for a 16 inch barrel, why would someone chose one type of gas vs the other?
A: If you are the type of person who prefers mid-length gas on a 5.56mm because it has less gas port erosion and less stress on the bolt and extractor, then choose carbine gas. If you want to experiment with extra fast-burning powders and are willing to either not shoot full power ammo or have an adjustable gas block - then use pistol. Remington subsonic ammo generates enough gas pressure to be compatible with carbine gas in a 16 inch barrel.

Q: What about bolt action or single shot guns?
A: With a Remington 700, it is best to work from a 17 Fireball rifle, or a 223 that has had the ejector replaced with Fireball parts. People have made rifles from CZ, Howa, Thompson, and other platforms.

Q: Reloading... What powders are best?
A: Nearly all supersonic ammo reaches the highest velocity with H-110/W296 powder, or close variants such as 295 or 297. Many people like N110 - and it is fine to use, but it will not attain as high as velocity. For subsonic in the AR, stick to bullets 208 to 240 grains and A1680 will cycle all rifles. 4198 or RE-7 - which do not always fit into the available space, may also be used. 980 fps is probably the best velocity - as bullet flight noise increases a lot as speeds get higher. Note that 300 Whisper(R) loads often recommend N110 or H110 for subsonic. These will not work in 300 AAC BLACKOUT given the way (thankfully) most rifles are designed to be compatible with full power ammo without requiring adjustments.

Q: Can I make my own brass form 223 or 5.56mm?
A: Yes. You can cut it to 1.358 inches and run it through a sizing die. Use enough lube to help the forming, but not so much that you get hydraulic dents.

Q: Can I make my own brass from 221 Fireball?
A: Yes - just run it in a sizing die with an expander ball.

Q: How is Remington factory brass better than forming my own brass?
A: Remington factory brass is not converted, but made originally as 300 AAC BLACKOUT. It is the correct hardness profile through the length, and neck annealed to prevent cracking. Also, the head stamps are correct, and it can be reloaded many times.

Q: Can 300 AAC Blackout make Major Power Factor in 3-gun competition?
A: Yes. A Sierra 175 MK loaded to 2.245 OAL in Remington brass and with a 7.5 primer with 20.0 grains of A1680 reached 1900 fps in a 16 inch test barrel. The pressure was below SAAMI max.

Q: What companies have announced or are working on products for it:
A:

Ammunition:
AAC
Atlanta Arms
CMMG
Cor-Bon
Double Tap
Hornady
Remington
One Shot
PNW Arms
Raven Armament Company
Southern Ballistic Research
Southwest Ammunition LLC
Summit
The Bullet Works
Wilson Combat

Brass:
Brad's Warehouse - converted brass.
Remington

Rifles:
AAC
Adams Arms
Bushmaster Firearms
BWE Firearms
CMMG
Delta Company Arms
DPMS
Force Multiplier
Lewis Machine and Tool
LWRCI
Noveske
Primary Weapons Systems
Selph Arms LLC
Spike's Tactical
Umlaut Industries
Wilson Combat

Barrels:
AR-Stoner
Black Hole Weaponry
CMMG
Compass Lake Engineering
Delta Company Arms
Lewis Machine and Tool
Loki Weapon Systems
Lothar Walther
Match Grade Machine - Thompson barrels.
McGowen Barrel - Savage and other barrels.
Model 1 Sales
Montana Rifleman - barrels.
Noveske
Pac-Nor
Satern Custom Machining, Inc.
Selph Arms LLC
SI Defense
Triton Arms
White Oak Precision
Wilson Combat

AR Uppers:
AAC
Adams Arms
Bushmaster Firearms
BWE Firearms
CMMG
Delta Company Arms
DPMS
Force Multiplier
Lewis Machine and Tool
Loki Weapon Systems
Model 1 Sales
Noveske
Primary Weapons Systems
Raven Armament Company
Selph Arms LLC
SI Defense
Spike's Tactical
Umlaut Industries
Wilson Combat

Specialized Bullets:
AAC
Barnes
Sierra
The Bullet Works

Silencers:
AAC
Surefire
BWE Firearms
SilencerCo

Reloading Dies:
Forster
Hornady
Lee
Redding
The Full Die set (two dies) is part number 80327 and will be listed as a Series C set for $119.88. The Deluxe set (three dies) is 84327 and lists for $188.40.

Lowers:
Lone Star Armory
Umlaut Industries

Misc:
Dillon Precision - reloading conversion kits.
Pacific Tool and Gauge - reamers and gauges.
Leupold - optics.
L.E. Wilson - case gauges.

Q: What ammo is actually out that is made to SAAMI specs?
A: Hornady has two loads out under the Whisper(R) name, but they have been developed specifically to ensure compatibility with 300 AAC BLACKOUT. They are technically not SAAMI spec because they are not properly head-stamped, but physically they will be compatible. 110 grain V-max, Hornady part number 8089, and 208 Amax subsonic, Hornady part number 80892.

Remington has the 220 subsonic which features a sealed and lightly staked primer and visible proof of annealing, blue primer sealant for ID, and certain customers can order them with metal military packaging and waterproof case mouths - but that version is not inventoried for commercial sale.

Remington also has a Premiere Match 125 grain, which features a custom Sierra 125 grain bullet designed long for optimal feeding from AR magazines and for a high-BC, but yet flat based for accuracy and maximum case capacity. This load features red primer sealant for ID, a high-strength case with a NATO-like hardness profile, visible proof of annealing, and optional mouth waterproofing and metal military packing if customer requirements specify it (this version not inventoried for commercial sale).

For expanding ammo, Remington has a Premiere AccuTip-V 125 grain polymer tipped load specifically designed to expand at the velocities typical of 300 AAC BLACKOUT. This expansion and penetration is tuned for close-up use with short barrels, and for use at greater distance with 16 inch barrels. This load also features red primer sealant for ID, a high-strength NATO-like hardness profile, and all are cannelured, crimped, and mouth waterproofed.

Q: What are some Remington part numbers for ammo and where can I get it?
A:

Below are some part numbers. Note that proof rounds, dummy rounds, and reference ammo are not for general sale. The normal commercial ammo is being distributed by AAC, Accusport, and RSR - and also through dealers like MidwayUSA and a long list of others.

21509 - commercial 220 subsonic
21503 - commercial 125 Premiere Match
21516 - 125 Premiere AccuTip
21824 - proof load
21960 - dummy load
21666 - SAAMI reference load


Q: What are some videos of 300 AAC BLACKOUT?
A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbYLyfFf9u8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VivPz-Z0 ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjWjP1-L ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRw-ypBgrKo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qkJxXmv ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xlHHQVD ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Q7EsIPGY8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR-TG7YK ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvxq7-Ior-g

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/300aacbla ... 9439694519
Twitter: 300aacblackout



(C) 2011 Robert Silvers. Please link to this rather than quote it. Why? Mostly because this will be modified and kept up to date, and I don't want out-of-date fragments everywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:25 pm 
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I am going to add to this as I think of things. Please suggest what to add. I am just getting started on it, so it is probably only 20% done.

I basically need to go through my powerpoint presentation and add that stuff to here. And also add in the companies making products, sorted by category. And add in future ammunition projects.


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:30 pm
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you could add a brief summary of the history behind the 300 Whisper/221/BLK/WTF just to give new folks some background regarding the original concept and how it has evolved over the years.

Perhaps touch on the different firearm platforms that are currently being chambered for the round. .ie AR, Bolt guns, TC etc. and maybe give examples of brands that have been successfuly converted like Howa, Tikka, Remington.

Along the same lines you could address specific suppressors (not nessisarily an all inclusive listing) that have consistently provided good results, or are popular in this application.

Same thing with optics. you could pull some data from the various optic related posts and list some of the more popular options. again, not all inclusive, but something to give new folks an idea what is working, and is popular with those that are already using the round.

Maybe touch on common hunting applications. Nonimal ranges were game is taken, popular bullets and of course the type of game folks are gunning for with this round.

I also think it is always a good idea to be frank and open about limitations. Every round has limitations and if that info is up-front and clear, I think it goes a long ways in helping people decide if this is a cartridge that will work for thier application.

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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:44 pm 
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thanks Robert! great post!

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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:47 pm 
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It is going to take a while to rehash everything relevant I have posted over the months and get it added to this.


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:47 pm 
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^ that is somethin i've got to try.
Any speculation for a 9" barrel? -- guessin not MPF but thats ok with me


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:06 pm 
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Don’t forget Hoser on the list of companies converting brass!!!!! And remember he was the first to offer the services before Brad’s Warehouse came along…

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewt ... 45&t=63339

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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:07 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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I have used brass from both Hoser and Brad’s and both work great…

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www.selpharms.com
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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:44 pm 
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What is his company name?


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:50 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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silencertalk wrote:
What is his company name?



I believe he is going by his screen name, you might want to send him a PM and ask him…

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Selph Arms LLC
Brad Selph
president
[email protected]
www.selpharms.com
07 FFL/Class 2 SOT


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:26 pm
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Alangaq wrote:
I also think it is always a good idea to be frank and open about limitations. Every round has limitations and if that info is up-front and clear, I think it goes a long ways in helping people decide if this is a cartridge that will work for thier application.


AGREED


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:45 am 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:26 pm
Posts: 88
silencertalk wrote:
Silencers:
AAC
Surefire
BWE Firearms
SilencerCo



wont any .30 cal silencer work?


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:01 am 
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Yes, but those are companies who specifically made a 300 AAC BLACKOUT silencer, so I am promoting them.


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:21 am 
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Silent Operator

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oh wow i did not know that any other companies other than AAC made a silencer specifically for the 300BLK. thats pretty sweet. I am excited to see what Silencer Co comes out with


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:02 am 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:48 pm
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I just read the PDF you did on the cartridge. Great info!

http://300aacblackout.com/resources/300-BLK.pdf

Are there any data on MRBS (Mean Rounds Between Stoppage) to compare unsuppressed and suppressed subsonic to supersonic?
Especially comparing it to the M4?
I know that my experience with a suppressed AR in direct impingement was dismal much over 150 rounds.

Thanks Robert


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:23 am 
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I need to redo all of that with the new supersonic ammo. But I don't see it happening until we have more ammo.


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:31 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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silencertalk wrote:
Q: What is the standard barrel length for 300 AAC BLACKOUT?
A: The SAAMI standard is 16 inches instead of the normal 24 inches for other rifles cartridges. We felt that 24 inches was unrealistic, and would lead to inflated velocity numbers on factory ammo, if the ammo were reported for a long barrel length that no one actually used.

Q: What is the longest practical barrel?
A: The velocity does go up and up – even with barrels over 24 inches. However, few people will want a barrel over 20 inches because the tradeoff between velocity and length has diminishing returns.



Do we have any data for 20 inch AR barrels? I'd like to know what velocity increases could be had with the 110/125 grain bullets in a 20 inch AR-15 barrel. Could one get an even greater velocity boost using a slower burning powder? If so, does anyone have any recommended loads to try with some slower powders?


Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:56 pm 
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Whatever powder is fastest in a short barrel is also fastest in long barrels.


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:57 pm 
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Could you address buffers in the FAQ? Crazy rumors flying all over the place about need for 9 mm buffers or stone monoliths to slow down bolt speed.


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:35 pm 
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That makes no sense. Why would not maker not just make a smaller gas port to use a normal buffer?

A manufacturer can pick a gas port size to work with any buffer. I happen to like H2s for short barrels and Hs for 16 inch barrels - so that is how I gassed the AAC 9 and 16 inch uppers.


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:42 pm 
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silencertalk wrote:
That makes no sense. Why would not maker not just make a smaller gas port to use a normal buffer?

A manufacturer can pick a gas port size to work with any buffer. I happen to like H2s for short barrels and Hs for 16 inch barrels - so that is how I gassed the AAC 9 and 16 inch uppers.


Ah, ok. I'm dumb. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: 300 AAC BLACKOUT FAQ
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Maybe you are smart and some upper makers are dumb. There may be some brands that have gas ports that I would consider too large.


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