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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:15 pm 
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Location: Sandusky, Ohio
I'm in the middle of purchasing a deactivated Lahti 20mm Anti-Tank rifle only to find out it doesn't have the DeWaT papers. Is there a legal way to still reactivate this without those papers? It seems to be correctly deactivated with the chamber drilled, and a steel rod welded in the chamber. I only want the gun if it can be made operational again, legally.

I'm friends with the local gunsmith who, next year at latest is going to have his Class 3 Title 2 manufacturers' license, and I was going to have him work on it, but without the dewat papers I just don't know where to go or where to look to determine the legality of my venture. Can anyone help me?

P.S. - And just to be sure, WITH DeWaT papers a Class 3 Title 2 manufacturer can make a DeWaT'ed Lahti functional again, right?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:33 pm 
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Cant you just do a form 1 for a DD? I could make a semi-auto 120mm cannon and it would be legal if I form one'd it right guys?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:54 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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A deactivated DD does not need Dewatt paperwork. They are sold as title 1 guns just like a remington rifle. You have to form 1 it or a manufacturer form 2 it to reactivate it. Also the gun must be stamped with the new makers information.

I would not let a novice gunsmith work on one. Find someone that has experience with them. There is a lot of energy in there and you can get hurt quick.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Mongo wrote:
A deactivated DD does not need Dewatt paperwork. They are sold as title 1 guns just like a remington rifle. You have to form 1 it or a manufacturer form 2 it to reactivate it. Also the gun must be stamped with the new makers information.

I would not let a novice gunsmith work on one. Find someone that has experience with them. There is a lot of energy in there and you can get hurt quick.


Under the ATF website however, it says that manufacturing DD's takes a class 3 title 9 or 10 license, that a regular class 3 title 2 manufacturer of NFA weapons does not include making destructive devices...

So are you saying that I can transfer a Lahti without dewat paperwork that is deactivated to a regular FFL like a regular rifle, and to reactivate it I could do so with a form 2? (what's a form 2 exactly?)

This doesn't sound right because legally it's either an illegal DD to begin with because the receiver would already be intact and premade, and it's basically just a rebarrel job. If it didn't have the dewat paperwork you'd be essentially manufacturing a DD out of an illegally dewat'ed DD... right?

:?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:45 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Illuminaughty wrote:
Mongo wrote:
A deactivated DD does not need Dewatt paperwork. They are sold as title 1 guns just like a remington rifle. You have to form 1 it or a manufacturer form 2 it to reactivate it. Also the gun must be stamped with the new makers information.

I would not let a novice gunsmith work on one. Find someone that has experience with them. There is a lot of energy in there and you can get hurt quick.


Under the ATF website however, it says that manufacturing DD's takes a class 3 title 9 or 10 license, that a regular class 3 title 2 manufacturer of NFA weapons does not include making destructive devices...

So are you saying that I can transfer a Lahti without dewat paperwork that is deactivated to a regular FFL like a regular rifle, and to reactivate it I could do so with a form 2? (what's a form 2 exactly?)

This doesn't sound right because legally it's either an illegal DD to begin with because the receiver would already be intact and premade, and it's basically just a rebarrel job. If it didn't have the dewat paperwork you'd be essentially manufacturing a DD out of an illegally dewat'ed DD... right?

:?


sorry I meant a manufacturer lic for DD can form 2 it. But in its deactivated state right now it is not a DD but a title 1 gun. You are mixing machine gun deactivation with DD and they are nto the same. Just like a M79 or M203 w/o a barrel they are a title 1 receiver but as soon as you add the barrel they are a DD. I'm assuming the barrel int he gun is plugged so as far as ATF is concerned the barrel is a dummy and there for ehte gun is a title 1 gun aka receiver. If the barrel is not plugged then you have a DD and it is illegal.

If the gun is registered as a dewatt then you need to transfer it that way so when you reactivate it it will be a C&R gun, otherwise it will be a "new" manufactured DD on a form 1 ot 2.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:42 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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Have you checked with the ATF that there are no records on the gun? If the seller just lost the papers, it's possible ATF still has them.

If it's not properly dewatted, you can just take off the barrel and get a new one once it's registered. It happens. You just have to find someone else who's in the same situation and trade barrels.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:56 pm 
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Diomed wrote:
Have you checked with the ATF that there are no records on the gun? If the seller just lost the papers, it's possible ATF still has them.

If it's not properly dewatted, you can just take off the barrel and get a new one once it's registered. It happens. You just have to find someone else who's in the same situation and trade barrels.


I didn't quite understand that, but I've found a firearms lawyer who apparently can check with the ATF to see if the serial number on the lahti in question is registered as a dewat or not.

Time to hold my breath!

:oops:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:26 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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Illuminaughty wrote:
Diomed wrote:
Have you checked with the ATF that there are no records on the gun? If the seller just lost the papers, it's possible ATF still has them.

If it's not properly dewatted, you can just take off the barrel and get a new one once it's registered. It happens. You just have to find someone else who's in the same situation and trade barrels.


I didn't quite understand that, but I've found a firearms lawyer who apparently can check with the ATF to see if the serial number on the lahti in question is registered as a dewat or not.

Time to hold my breath!

:oops:

Well, if your lawyer says it's registered, it's easy - just file a Form 5 to transfer it, tax free - as long as it's dewatted.

If it's not in the registry, dismount the barrel so you no longer have a contraband weapon. Have someone else keep the barrel so there's no constructive-type issues. Then you can register it and put a new barrel on it.

The old barrel would be good for a trade with someone in a similar situation.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:26 pm 
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"If it's not in the registry, dismount the barrel so you no longer have a contraband weapon. Have someone else keep the barrel so there's no constructive-type issues. Then you can register it and put a new barrel on it."

This firearm has a steel rod welded in the chamber, which means that it can not be loaded and fired so it is not contraband.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:24 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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mike in pa wrote:
"If it's not in the registry, dismount the barrel so you no longer have a contraband weapon. Have someone else keep the barrel so there's no constructive-type issues. Then you can register it and put a new barrel on it."

This firearm has a steel rod welded in the chamber, which means that it can not be loaded and fired so it is not contraband.

That slipped my mind in the three days this thread's been going.

Depending on how well the rod is welded in, a new barrel may be needed anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:36 am 
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Barrels are tough to come by nowadays. Original used are almost non existant, there was a guy selling new barrels chambered in 20mm Hispano Sueza, if you want the original chambering or Vulcan you needed to buy a chamber reamer and ream it out, but his barrels were running about $2500.

He could have a new chamber section made from barrel steel and grafted to his barrel (depending how bad they drilled and welded the old one) then have the chamber reamed. This is how I am going to activate my second Lahti.

He does need to find a really good gunsmith before he attempts to activate his, naturally after he has his Form 1 in hand.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:13 pm
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Hey OP, did you ever get that Lahti up and running? Any issues or problems?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:53 pm 
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Silent But Deadly

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Kramer wrote:
Hey OP, did you ever get that Lahti up and running? Any issues or problems?


Since he hasn't posted here in 8 years, I'm betting we're not gonna find out.

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