SBS Engraved????

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telero
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Re: SBS Engraved????

Post by telero »

Pitt2500 wrote:I heard it from my Class 3 dealer AND I heard it from an ATF Enforcement Officer.

My understanding from a recent conversation w/an enforcement agent is that when a "police agency" enters the Serial # of the rifle or shotgun in question that if the search is "properly" done it will show that firearm to be a Registered SBS or SBR.
Obviously the best choice is to ask a lawyer and/or the NFA branch of the ATF. Some dealers don't know as much as they should (manufacturers on the other hand are usually much better informed). Same with ATF, the regular officers don't know as much as they should, but the NFA branch guys usually know their stuff.

Registered as an SBR and configured as an SBR (or SBS) are two separate things. That's what the ATF FAQ I linked to points out. You'll probably have to read your own state law, but I would imagine most definitions are quite similar to this one from Washington for instance:

"Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches."

Notice that that the definition doesn't use the word registered. Even if a rifle was registered as an SBR, if it wasn't shorter than 26" AND the barrel wasn't shorter than 16" it wouldn't actually meet the definition. It would just be a rifle. By the way, SBRs are illegal in Washington (unless you're a manufacturer or had it before July 1, 1994), it was just the first definition I found with a quick search.
Flat Tire
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Re: SBS Engraved????

Post by Flat Tire »

Dogtired wrote:A SBR would have a short barrel and be less than 26 inches. Why over think that? Leave 4h for additional markings.

It is a registered SBR when an SBR, just a rifle when not an SBR with a registered SBR lower, never an AOW.
I can over think that and say I have a SBR with a short barrel that is longer then 26".
-k-
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Re: SBS Engraved????

Post by -k- »

Change the "and" to an "or", a barrel less than 16" or OAL less than 26".
Dogtired
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Re: SBS Engraved????

Post by Dogtired »

Yes, thanks for the proofread...
alanjreid
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Re: SBS Engraved????

Post by alanjreid »

Bendersquint wrote:
ready_on_the_right wrote:Was asking if SBS had to be engraved. I would be making one on form 1.


Thanks,
Mike
Yes, everything you make NFA must be engraved.

WRONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Everything you make NFA must only be engraved if you plan on selling it
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Bendersquint
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Re: SBS Engraved????

Post by Bendersquint »

alanjreid wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
ready_on_the_right wrote:Was asking if SBS had to be engraved. I would be making one on form 1.


Thanks,
Mike
Yes, everything you make NFA must be engraved.

WRONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Everything you make NFA must only be engraved if you plan on selling it
Please post that regulation. There are regulations that state all NFA firearms must be engraved, nowhere in ANY regulation does it say that it doesn't need to be engraved unless you sell it.

You are probably confusing it with making a Title1 firearm as there is no requirement to engrave Title1 firearms, only Title2.

Some supporting documentation.....From the NFA Handbook......bolded/enlarged for key points.

"All NFA firearms must be identified by a serial number and other specified markings. If an existing firearm is being used in the making of the NFA weapon, and that firearm is serialized, the existing serial number should be used (unless it duplicates a serial number already used by the maker on Form 1) and entered in Block 4(g). If the weapon is of new manufacture, the applicant must assign a unique serial number and enter it in Block 4(g). For example, a unique serial number could be composed of at least 4 digits preceded by the initials of the maker. NOTE: alpha characters, e.g., a name, will not be accepted as a serial number. If a name is to be used, there must be at least one numeric character in addition to the alpha characters.
The serial number must be engraved or stamped on the receiver of the firearm and the caliber, model, and identification of the maker must be engraved on the barrel or frame or receiver of the weapon. The marking and identification requirements for a maker are the same as for a manufacturer. Refer to section 7.4 for a detailed discussion of the requirements.

Section 7.4

Section 7.4 The identification of firearms.
7.4.1 Serial numbers. Each manufacturer of a firearm must legibly identify it by engraving, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing on the firearm’s frame or receiver an individual serial number not duplicating any serial number placed by the manufacturer on any other firearm. The requirement that the marking be “conspicuously” placed on the firearm means that the marking must be wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
7.4.1.1 What is an acceptable serial number? Alpha characters (letters), for example a name, are not acceptable as a serial number. A proper serial number may contain such characters or letters, but it must have at least one numeric character (number). ATF takes the view that marking “legibly” means using exclusively Roman letters (A, B, C, and so forth) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, and so forth).121 Deviations from this requirement have been found to seriously impair ATF’s ability to trace firearms involved in crime.
7.4.2 Additional information. Certain additional information must also be conspicuously placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel of the firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), that is, they must be placed in such a manner that they are wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:
(1) The model, if such designation has been made;
(2) The caliber or gauge;
(3) The manufacturer’s name (or recognized abbreviation);
and (4) The city and State (or recognized abbreviation) where the manufacturer maintains its place of business."

All this documentation is backed up by the USC/CFR.

Please post the USC/CFR that says you do not have to engrave unless you plan to sell. Since the USC/CFR says you are REQUIRED to there would have to be something in USC/CFR to provide the "only if you plan to sell it" exemption.
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