FA .22LR options?

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MJF1911
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FA .22LR options?

Post by MJF1911 »

I'm looking to venture into a full auto. I'm thinking I'd like a .22LR or possibly an M2 .30 Carbine. I'd really like to find a 10/22 that has been converted to full auto with a selector switch. Are there any such things out there? I'd like a rifle of some sort. I don't want a pistol. I have $10K to spend.

Thanks!
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by Tony M. »

A 10/22 Norrell pack is probably the closest thing to what you're looking for. $10K might be a little shy of the market, but it's hard to tell what a cash offer might do for a buyer.

I haven't seen one for sale in the last few weeks, but in the last several months they've been listed for $12K or so.

It's a registered trigger pack and bolt. They drop into any regular 10/22 receiver, and provide select fire capability. The selector is either alongside the trigger, or is a button at the top of the trigger.

I've shot a few, and they're a lot of fun.

If you want a 100% dedicated .22 MG, either the Norrell pack, or an american 180 are probably your best bet. They both seem to be priced at the $12K margin though. Both of those platforms have good support (John Norrell is still in business, and E&L manufacturing supports the AM180) and magazine availability, both platforms are also fairly well sorted, and should run out of the box with only minor tweaking.

If you want other routes, there's the Voere 2005 converted by SWD. They run about $4K+ but are FA only, and have absolutely zero aftermarket support, and no hi cap magazines easily available. The barrels are also difficult to remove from the reciever, and in some cases SWD engraved the barrels themselves. As a result, having the gun threaded for a suppressor can be challenging. They are the cheap way to get a .22 only SMG, but the drawbacks result in the low cost of entry.

There are some mitchell arms AK-22's that were converted by hard times armory (and others, no doubt) that are pretty neat. I've handled one, but never got to shoot it. They have hi-cap mags, but the mags are hard to find and expensive. Also zero aftermarket support. The barrels are threaded 1/2x20, but lack a good square shoulder. They seem to run between $6K and $8K

Thompson 1928-A22's are also available, and in your price range. (They seem to run $8K-$10K) Made with an aluminum receiver instead of steel, they are lighter than the .45 counterparts, but also can't be converted back to fire .45 ammo. I've neither handled nor shot one, but I have heard good things, and the Thompson is about as iconic as you can get for SMG's. Mags can be an issue, but are available.

There are a few other options for dedicated .22 MG's, but mostly they are one-offs, and might or might not work properly. The same can be said for the 10/22 conversions that aren't Norrell's.

Other options would be conversion kits for other MG's. The M-16 family and the Ruger AC556 are easy conversions, and seem to run well once adjusted properly. The M16 would be north of your budget, but AC556's can be had for less than $10K and the conversion kits usually run $250 or less. Black Dog makes mags for the kit, so they're cheap and available.

There are conversion kits for the Macs and UZI's as well, but from your statement, I assume you'd prefer to avoid sheet metal SMG's.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by lafsnguy »

You could look at a m11/9 with Lages 22 conversion kit. I have one and it is 99% really 99.9% with a silencer. Lots of aftermarket accessories for the M11/9s as well. Alliance Armament just released an upper for the mac 10 that lets you shoot 5.56 full auto.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by rockman96 »

For the money (or not), and IMO... An M11/9 with a Lage .22 conversion will serve you much better than a converted 10/22. Cheaper too. Other than that, an AM180 would be a logical choice. Wish I'd bought one when they were cheap.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by MJF1911 »

Nothing against the M11/9, but it just doesn't interest me much.

I think the Norrell is going to be out of my range for right now. We're getting into the busy season with work though and a bigger budget will likely be available come December.

I like the idea of an AC556 being able to run both .223 and .22LR with the proper conversion. Is the 9 twist barrel an issue with .22LR and a can?
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by Tony M. »

I will say that if you find a non Norrell conversion, if it's a registered receiver, he can update the gun to his system. It costs a little money, but might still put you ahead of buying one of the registered trigger packs. John Thedford has a registered 10/22 on his site now, but I'm not sure if it's a RR or a trigger pack conversion. He's asking right at $10K for it.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by MJF1911 »

Thanks for the info, I'll contact him tomorrow.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by Baffled »

Purely my opinion - the way to go would be to find the absolute cheapest registered receiver AR. It'll be more than $10k, BUT - that single RR will open the door to damn near every caliber ever made in full auto, including belt fed.

If you buy a Norell or similar, you'll have fun, and won't lose any money on it, but the day will come when you itch to shoot 9mm, or 5.56, or any of a dozen other calibers, and the AR will let you do that, while the 10/22 is a one trick pony.

If you have 10K now, can you get another 4K on credit? Or maybe save another 6 months?
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by medphys3 »

M11 all the way. The low entry price point plus there are SO many options for it, once you get tired of 22. Lage MAX-11 upper, Lage MAX-31 upper (71 round drums), Alliance Armament 5.56 upper, AM180 uppers (holding my breath) ;)

Either that or a RR AR15/M16.

Uzi is another option, but I don't think the 22 kits are as reliable as the Lage kits.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by MJF1911 »

Baffled wrote:Purely my opinion - the way to go would be to find the absolute cheapest registered receiver AR. It'll be more than $10k, BUT - that single RR will open the door to damn near every caliber ever made in full auto, including belt fed.

If you buy a Norell or similar, you'll have fun, and won't lose any money on it, but the day will come when you itch to shoot 9mm, or 5.56, or any of a dozen other calibers, and the AR will let you do that, while the 10/22 is a one trick pony.

If you have 10K now, can you get another 4K on credit? Or maybe save another 6 months?

I just bought a new car so I'd rather not go for any more credit. I stuff at least $400 in my piggy bank every paycheck so if I wait another 6 months I could probably swing an AR. I let my dealer know what I was looking for so he is on the hunt for something for me.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by Tony M. »

If the Am180 would float your boat, someone just posted one on Sturm for $10.5K with a lot of accessories.

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4s ... ead=161776
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by rogerme »

I also vote for a M16 lower. You can get the best of many calibers plus you can also use the American 180 drums. http://bazookabrothers.com/products3.htm

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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by MJF1911 »

I think I'm gonna save up for a few more months and go for an M16.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by Tony M. »

MJF1911 wrote:I think I'm gonna save up for a few more months and go for an M16.
If you got the scratch, that will cover a lot more itches.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by fullofdays »

I am in the same boat looking for 22 FA Options. I am ordering one of these triggers. A lot less money than M16 and a lot better looking than a slide fire stock. I'm unsure if these will work on a dedicated 22 upper though.

https://tacfirecon.com/tacfireconshop/i ... duct_id=51
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by rockman96 »

fullofdays wrote:I am in the same boat looking for 22 FA Options. I am ordering one of these triggers. A lot less money than M16 and a lot better looking than a slide fire stock. I'm unsure if these will work on a dedicated 22 upper though.

https://tacfirecon.com/tacfireconshop/i ... duct_id=51
Did you see this thread? After reading, it seems like way too much money for an under-performing product to me. Sort of like those 10/22 gatling kits... thought I wanted one until I actually saw a vid of one in action.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=120035
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by Baffled »

fullofdays wrote:I am in the same boat looking for 22 FA Options. I am ordering one of these triggers. A lot less money than M16 and a lot better looking than a slide fire stock. I'm unsure if these will work on a dedicated 22 upper though.

https://tacfirecon.com/tacfireconshop/i ... duct_id=51
Better make sure it'll function with .22LR. The bolt impulse on a .22 is much weaker than 5.56. It may not re-set the mechanism. OTOH, it may work fine.

It's still a semi-auto, though. The Akins Accelerator is the perfect example of the saying "You've got to pay to play" with FA stuff. Sad, but that's the reality.

The cheapest true .22FA would be a MAC with a .22 kit. The MAC used to be the Yugo of the NFA world, a throwaway toy, but the number of serious and high quality kits for it has made it a real value. Anyone else remember MACs at $500 each if you buy two? And there was that guy who owned two pallets of NIB MACs still in the foam boxes. I want to say he paid $100 each for them.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by eastern_hunter »

Have always thought it might be nice to have an FA 22 lr.

And even have the prerequisite registered M16 lower and an FA rated can.

Who has a reasonably priced 22 FA upper that is can ready?
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by Baffled »

Hunter, there are a number of AR style dedicated .22LR uppers that would drop right on an M-16 lower. Or an AR with a DIAS. No difference in function between the two. The Sparrow SS would be ideal for full auto .22

BUT - FA .22LR M-16's can be finicky. If one can rip off 3 x 30 round mags with no malfunction, then they are very lucky, or very skilled. Bolt bounce in 90% of the problem.

The 10/22 conversion is probably the most reliable out there, maybe along with the American 180. And the former uses an anti bolt bounce device.

I've done the Ciener unit with a ball-detente modification from ARFCOM. I'm kind of proud to say I think I am the first guy to execute it. It works OK, but is not a 100% answer. I've often thought the future of anti bolt bounce is rare earth magnets, but I've not had time to try it yet.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by Baffled »

Anyone know what happened to the R W Bain Firearms guy(s) that made an AR upper that accepts 10/22 mags from the side, like a Sten? I had that site bookmarked for months. It looked like an awesome device for the full auto AR. Damn, I wish I had bought one.

http://rwbainfirearms.com/ <-- Web site is gone

We have AR conversions for the AM-180 drum, fed from the bottom, and another that uses the drum on top. Anyone know who makes the latter?

AFAIK, .22LR full auto variants for the AR/M-16 include the Atchisson device and Lakeside LM-7 and Razorback uppers.

Any others?
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by strobro32 »

M11/9 SMG with a Lage MFG M-11/22 kit. Still can be found under $4K. Uses 40 rd. mags. No wait list, AM180 drum adaptable.
The M11/9, M-11/22 and American 180 are open bolt designs which do not suffer from the bolt bounce issues of the AR22.

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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by 3154tm »

what strobo said. my M11 with the Lage 22lr conversion kit runs like a champ. now if i could only find cheap 22 ammo.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by Tony M. »

If only I could find an M11/9 for under $4K!
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by SpyderArms »

I would go with the M16. They can be had for around $12,000. But you get the versatility of all the different calibers. CMMG makes a FA conversion kit for it to shoot 22lr. 22LR AR Conversion
Plus you can use the lower to make a sbr or shoot 300 blackout, 9mm, beltfed, and on and on.
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Re: FA .22LR options?

Post by jt526 »

If only I could find an M16 for around $12K!

I'm not so sure I'd sell my Lightning Link for that now.

I also have the Lage 22lr, both kits actually, one for the max11 and one for a dedicated Upper:

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ETA: Ha, actually found a married sear gun on sturm for 12,500, may just give it a shot
Stupid, stupid NFA items.
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