RDIAS ?

Machineguns, assault rifles, subguns, SBRs, etc. Photos, questions, discussion. General talk.

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw

Post Reply
wmdaniel70
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:18 am

RDIAS ?

Post by wmdaniel70 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:36 pm


User avatar
eastern_hunter
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 966
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:34 pm
Location: Charleston, WV

Re: RDIAS ?

Post by eastern_hunter » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:22 pm

My understanding is that unregistered autosears made before a certain date are OK to own if you do not also have possession of a semi auto AR ... if you do is BADness!

In order to use one with an AR, you would have to have an Form 1 approved before the Hughes Amendment went into effect in 1986 or a properly registered host transferred on a Form 4. As a citizen, one can no longer get a Form 1 approved to make a machinegun as a result of the Hughes Amendment.

I think you'll find that a registered auto sear is going for BIG dollars (<$10K).

Tony M.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:42 am
Location: FL

Re: RDIAS ?

Post by Tony M. » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:24 pm

wmdaniel70 wrote:What is the deal with this??

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/inde ... =retrieval
The cut off for manufacture was in '81, not '85, and The ATF has recently set precedent (in court) saying that even the pre-'81 sears are contraband.

Steer clear if you cherish your anal virginity.

User avatar
eastern_hunter
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 966
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:34 pm
Location: Charleston, WV

Re: RDIAS ?

Post by eastern_hunter » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:28 am

Tony,

Really good information to have!!! Had always felt they were a quick way to perdition so didn't watch the most recent developments.

Wish I had bought a registered sear for the HK when they were cheap ... can remember when they were $1000/dozen. Oh well ... hind sight is always much better than future forecasting!

wmdaniel70
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:18 am

Re: RDIAS ?

Post by wmdaniel70 » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:37 am

Thank you both for the info. Since my anal virginity is very dear to me I think I will pass!

User avatar
twodollarbill
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: wisconsin

Re: RDIAS ?

Post by twodollarbill » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:15 pm

eastern_hunter wrote: Oh well ... hind sight is always much better than future forecasting!
My neighbor was registering auto sears whenever he had spare cash, back before the cut-off date on registration.
It was like he had a six sense about it, he was sending in form 1's like two to five a month.
I was luck to have listened to him and done a few too.
He also forced me to buy some of those new stocks that were offered in those days....like microsoft, apple and ebay. :D

hunter2
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:07 am

Re: RDIAS ?

Post by hunter2 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:10 pm

Wish I had a good neighbor. And I am not talking about State Farm.....

User avatar
TEXMEX
Silent Operator
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:56 pm

Re: RDIAS ?

Post by TEXMEX » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:25 pm

twodollarbill wrote:
eastern_hunter wrote: Oh well ... hind sight is always much better than future forecasting!
My neighbor was registering auto sears whenever he had spare cash, back before the cut-off date on registration.
It was like he had a six sense about it, he was sending in form 1's like two to five a month.
I was luck to have listened to him and done a few too.
He also forced me to buy some of those new stocks that were offered in those days....like microsoft, apple and ebay. :D
Those days? You mean pre '86? Ebay was founded in 1995.

sillycon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:34 pm
Location: FL

Re: RDIAS ?

Post by sillycon » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:05 pm

My apologies on the semi-necro-post here, but this thread prompted me to come up with an (I thought...) interesting question: If one has a registered receiver, is there any precedent established to allow someone to use an unregistered DIAS in that registered receiver? E.g. as a means to avoid worn-out sear holes or other such potential "problems".

As there is not a substantial change to the existing MG, and the left over parts (e.g. the sear and roll pin) couldn't be used in an any AR-15 (without substantial modification and additional parts) I don't know that there is reason to believe that the ATF would construe this as manufacture of a "new" machine gun.

User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11359
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: RDIAS ?

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:43 pm

sillycon wrote:My apologies on the semi-necro-post here, but this thread prompted me to come up with an (I thought...) interesting question: If one has a registered receiver, is there any precedent established to allow someone to use an unregistered DIAS in that registered receiver? E.g. as a means to avoid worn-out sear holes or other such potential "problems".

As there is not a substantial change to the existing MG, and the left over parts (e.g. the sear and roll pin) couldn't be used in an any AR-15 (without substantial modification and additional parts) I don't know that there is reason to believe that the ATF would construe this as manufacture of a "new" machine gun.

Even if the RDIAS is used in a RR the RDIAS is still a machinegun......doesn't have to even have a host to meet definition.

Basically.....you would have 2 mg's, one registered another unregistered.

Yes, ATf has dealt with this before.

sillycon
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:34 pm
Location: FL

Re: RDIAS ?

Post by sillycon » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:39 pm

I didn't realize that a plain old DIAS in-and-of-itself was actually considered a machine gun (I realize it is if it's registered as such).

Considering that the FCG is also required, as well as a receiver that can actually take a DIAS (e.g. low shelf) I'm a bit surprised that an unregistered DIAS is considered a MG (though I shouldn't be too surprised given that shoe strings are also machine guns to the ATF).

User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11359
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: RDIAS ?

Post by Bendersquint » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:54 pm

sillycon wrote:I didn't realize that a plain old DIAS in-and-of-itself was actually considered a machine gun (I realize it is if it's registered as such).

Considering that the FCG is also required, as well as a receiver that can actually take a DIAS (e.g. low shelf) I'm a bit surprised that an unregistered DIAS is considered a MG (though I shouldn't be too surprised given that shoe strings are also machine guns to the ATF).
Considering that the MP5 F/A bolt is also required, as well as the trigger pack to accept the sear, I'm a bit surprised that an unregistered sear is considered a MG.

See what I did there?

The ATF doesn't care if you have means to use it or not, the RDIAS is classified AS A MG by itself, the AR lower is merely a host for it.

User avatar
YugoRPK
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 6217
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:56 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: RDIAS ?

Post by YugoRPK » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:29 pm

That pre 81 DIAS thing is one of the most misunderstood parts of gun lore. There was a time in this country where you could form 1 a receiver and buy a drop in auto sear to put in the receiver. The receiver was the registered machine gun and not the sear. It was just a part. The ATF put the kibosh on that practice in 1981 but they grandfathered in the guns. Many probably got converted to standard sears but there may be some out there that havent been. In any case that is the squishy legal basis for the "pre 81 auto sear". They were and may still be legal to sell as replacement parts for the guns approved prior to the rule change in 1981. The sears did not have to be manufactured prior to 1981 and the replacement or spare parts manufactured after 1981 were not considered NFA items unless they were registered as such prior to Reagans MG ban in '86. 10,000 times as many "pre 81 "sears have been sold over the years to people who did not have the legal "need" for them but thats besides the point.
Putting the laughter in manslaughter

Post Reply