Why different barrel lengths?

csfirearms · Post by **csfirearms** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:43 am

So I'm looking at an old O/U shotgun that I want to cut the barrel down on. When I looked up the reg's. Anything under 16 for a rifle is an SBR and 18.5 for a shotgun. Why the difference is barrel lengths? Anybody have a clue?

CSF

Cortland · Post by **Cortland** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:15 pm

The original NFA had the same lengths for both, 18". Congress later reduced the length for rifles to 16". I don't know why.

ETA: I just read a draft version of the NFA which says:

That for the purposes of this act the term “firearm” means a pistol, revolver, shotgun having a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or any other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, a muffler or silencer therefor, or a machine gun.

Of course this was an early draft that still included pistols in the definition, so I still think it was changed to 18" for both in the final version, and then later amended.

Cortland · Post by **Cortland** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:27 pm

Ok, I was right:

1936 amendment removes a rifle .22 caliber or smaller, with a barrel 16" or longer, from purview of the NFA
Less than 2 years after it was enacted, the Congress determined that under the NFA, "a discrimination and hardship, which was never intended, has been inflicted upon two or three manufacturers of .22 and less caliber hunting rifles." In Public Law 74-490, the Congress amended the NFA to remove a rifle of .22 caliber or smaller from purview of the NFA "if its barrel is 16 inches or more in length." The legislative history is documented in H. R. Report No. 2000, 74th Congress, 2nd Session; and in Senate Report No. 1682, 74th Congress, 2nd Session. Accordingly, the Treasury Department amended Regulations 88 in the INTERNAL REVENUE BULLETIN, Cumulative Bulletin XV-1, January-June 1936, page 468.

Keep in mind this only applied to .22 or smaller rifles. Congress finished the job in 1960:

In 1960, the Congress amended the NFA to establish a 26" overall length for a rifle or shotgun to be exempt from the NFA, a 16" minimum barrel length for an exempt rifle, and a $5 transfer tax for all AOWs
Page 27 contains familar words: "The firearms industry is threatened by a wave of uninformed hysteria over the relationship between the availablility of weapons and crime. Careful work by intelligent people is being applied, and should be applied, to this important problem; . . . The success of such efforts protects the firearms industry against the uniformed demands that crime be cured by indiscriminate, ill-conceived additions to existing regulation of commerce in firearms, which are easy to legislate but have absolutely no chance of reaching the intended target, namely, crime." Until these 1960 amendments, gun owners had to hire gunsmiths to weld 2" barrel extensions on rifles originally manufactured with 16" barrels, to conform with the 18" barrel length requirement for rifles to be exempt from the NFA. There was no evidence that rifles with 16" barrels were unusually susceptible for use in crimes; however, still, the Chief of Police of Omaha, Nebraska, wrote that the amendments "will increase law enforcement problems in this city." The Congress also recognized that so-called "gadget" and bizarre or unusual firearms in the AOW category were mainly of interest to collectors, not likely to be used as weapons by criminals, and so changed the $200 transfer tax to $5 to accommodate collectors. This document may be cited as "Firearms." Hearing before the Committee on Finance, United States Senate, 86th Congress, 2nd Session, on H.R. 4029, April 26, 1960. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1960.

csfirearms · Post by **csfirearms** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:34 pm

I just thought it was weird that I can have a shorter barrel on a rifle then a shotgun. I'm glad I checked before cutting the barrel down because I thought all LONG guns were 16.

Cortland · Post by **Cortland** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:41 pm

I think it's weird too that you can have a 16" rifle and not a 16" shotgun. I think it's weird that you can have a .50 caliber rifle but not a .51 caliber rifle. I think it's weird that you can have an AR15 made in Alaska, but not one made in British Columbia. I think it's weird that you can own a shotgun with a stick magazine, but not a drum magazine. I think it's weird that you can own a machine gun made in 1986, but not one made in 1987. I think it's weird that you can own a Beretta Storm, but not a Beretta Storm with a threaded barrel. I think it's weird that you can own a gun that looks like a pistol, but not one that looks like a knife. I think it's weird that you can't own a semi-automatic that used to be a machine gun. I think it's weird that a baffle is a silencer. I think it's weird that a shoe string is a machine gun.

None of this s--t should surprise you.

csfirearms · Post by **csfirearms** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:59 pm

Cortland wrote:I think it's weird too that you can have a 16" rifle and not a 16" shotgun. I think it's weird that you can have a .50 caliber rifle but not a .51 caliber rifle. I think it's weird that you can have an AR15 made in Alaska, but not one made in British Columbia. I think it's weird that you can own a shotgun with a stick magazine, but not a drum magazine. I think it's weird that you can own a machine gun made in 1986, but not one made in 1987. I think it's weird that you can own a Beretta Storm, but not a Beretta Storm with a threaded barrel. I think it's weird that you can own a gun that looks like a pistol, but not one that looks like a knife. I think it's weird that you can't own a semi-automatic that used to be a machine gun. I think it's weird that a baffle is a silencer. I think it's weird that a shoe string is a machine gun.

None of this s--t should surprise you.

Yeah I should not be surprised any more. But once in awhile I just can't fathom the thought process behind the rules.

ctdonath · Post by **ctdonath** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:55 pm

One rumor involved someone (well-connected, military, dunno) wanting to unload a large number of 16" rifles. Strings pulled, legislation changed, bargain achieved.

pmercer · Post by **pmercer** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:43 pm

Same thing here in the UK.

Rifles must have a 12" barrel + be 24" overall and shotguns must have a 24" barrle and be 40" overall.

Paul

mudshark · Post by **mudshark** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:21 pm

You guys still HAVE guns over there?

I thought there was total prohibition now in the UK. What gives?

-fate- · Post by **-fate-** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:24 am

You guys lost me on the shoestring is a machine gun

What is the deal there ?

Golovko · Post by **Golovko** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:35 pm

Although BATFE has since reversed their opinion, at one point in time they published a written opinion stating that a shoelace with the ends tied into loops was a machinegun because the user could slip one end over the trigger, the other end over the charging handle, and achieve full-auto fire by pulling on the shoelace just right.

I don't know why they reversed the opinion. Maybe they decided the shooter's finger was the machinegun?

Diomed · Post by **Diomed** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:41 am

I've always heard it had to do with the M1 carbine, some surplused examples having barrels that were about 17 inches. It was an embarrassment to have the guv'mint selling firearms it banned, and it was more expedient to change the law than seize the rifles sold off. (Why they didn't do that for the M2s they sold, I don't know.)

That's what I heard, anyway.