Hi everyone!
New guy trying to find my path in the NFA world. Haven't yet formed a trust, but will be getting there shortly. In the mean time, I'm reading and learning as much as I can.
One of the guns on my firearms "bucket list" is a full-auto MP5 (silenced). So I started looking around and found this:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/compone ... l?Itemid=0
First and second NFA items on that would be a) a shoulder stock to convert the pistol config into a SBR and b) a suppressor of some sort. All well and good, I have that part understood.
Onto the full-auto part. It specifically says in the description that it comes with a full auto bolt carrier. So, if I swapped the trigger group out with something like this:
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-MP5-3 ... 89p159.htm
Would that be legal? I've read like 40 different pieces that says it's illegal to manufacture a fully auto firearm, but I found a couple of places that seemed to make it sound like this was OK because it's a conversion, not a manufacture?...
How's that work? Is it possible I could end up with a functional MP5-SD clone for $3000?
Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
- whiterussian1974
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Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
Bender is the NFA Legal Expert.
My guess would be that conversion to FA trigger group would make it a "machinegun."
And if you want a MP5SD clone; once you add a shoulder stock and permanently attached suppressor, that may bring the bbl to 16" and OAL to 26.5". So I don't know if converting it from a pistol into a carbine means you have additional filing/Stamp requirements.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/images/ ... spnfa8.jpg
Shows that perhaps you can purchase the SBR package from the MFR.
Not sure if you can SBR a pistol after it's registered as a pistol.
My guess would be that conversion to FA trigger group would make it a "machinegun."
And if you want a MP5SD clone; once you add a shoulder stock and permanently attached suppressor, that may bring the bbl to 16" and OAL to 26.5". So I don't know if converting it from a pistol into a carbine means you have additional filing/Stamp requirements.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/images/ ... spnfa8.jpg
Shows that perhaps you can purchase the SBR package from the MFR.
Not sure if you can SBR a pistol after it's registered as a pistol.
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- Prince Yamato
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Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
No, it's not legal. If you want full-auto, you need to fork over $10-20k for a sear pack or registered lower. THEN you can have your happy switch.Would that be legal? I've read like 40 different pieces that says it's illegal to manufacture a fully auto firearm, but I found a couple of places that seemed to make it sound like this was OK because it's a conversion, not a manufacture?...
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
Prince Yamato wrote:No, it's not legal. If you want full-auto, you need to fork over $10-20k for a sear pack or registered lower. THEN you can have your happy switch.Would that be legal? I've read like 40 different pieces that says it's illegal to manufacture a fully auto firearm, but I found a couple of places that seemed to make it sound like this was OK because it's a conversion, not a manufacture?...
Bummer. Well, at least I know now.
....I wonder if I could put this on (http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/AR-M4-St ... p17118.htm), register as an SBR, and then modify an AR15 slidefire stock to work...
Thanks for the replies!
- Bendersquint
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Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
No it is not legal for you to use those parts to make a machinegun.Dlob wrote:Hi everyone!
New guy trying to find my path in the NFA world. Haven't yet formed a trust, but will be getting there shortly. In the mean time, I'm reading and learning as much as I can.
One of the guns on my firearms "bucket list" is a full-auto MP5 (silenced). So I started looking around and found this:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/compone ... l?Itemid=0
First and second NFA items on that would be a) a shoulder stock to convert the pistol config into a SBR and b) a suppressor of some sort. All well and good, I have that part understood.
Onto the full-auto part. It specifically says in the description that it comes with a full auto bolt carrier. So, if I swapped the trigger group out with something like this:
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-MP5-3 ... 89p159.htm
Would that be legal? I've read like 40 different pieces that says it's illegal to manufacture a fully auto firearm, but I found a couple of places that seemed to make it sound like this was OK because it's a conversion, not a manufacture?...
How's that work? Is it possible I could end up with a functional MP5-SD clone for $3000?
ONLY conversion parts made and registered prior to the 1986 ban are legal.
You will not get a full auto MP5SD for 3K, closer to $25K is more like it.
Think about it this way as well......if it were possible for $3K to do it legally don't you think there wold be 34782349728 of them out there?
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
Is that a random number???Bendersquint wrote:No it is not legal for you to use those parts to make a machinegun.Dlob wrote:Hi everyone!
New guy trying to find my path in the NFA world. Haven't yet formed a trust, but will be getting there shortly. In the mean time, I'm reading and learning as much as I can.
One of the guns on my firearms "bucket list" is a full-auto MP5 (silenced). So I started looking around and found this:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/compone ... l?Itemid=0
First and second NFA items on that would be a) a shoulder stock to convert the pistol config into a SBR and b) a suppressor of some sort. All well and good, I have that part understood.
Onto the full-auto part. It specifically says in the description that it comes with a full auto bolt carrier. So, if I swapped the trigger group out with something like this:
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-MP5-3 ... 89p159.htm
Would that be legal? I've read like 40 different pieces that says it's illegal to manufacture a fully auto firearm, but I found a couple of places that seemed to make it sound like this was OK because it's a conversion, not a manufacture?...
How's that work? Is it possible I could end up with a functional MP5-SD clone for $3000?
ONLY conversion parts made and registered prior to the 1986 ban are legal.
You will not get a full auto MP5SD for 3K, closer to $25K is more like it.
Think about it this way as well......if it were possible for $3K to do it legally don't you think there wold be 34782349728 of them out there?
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Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
^ if you have to ask....
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
Does not fit and is not legal.Dlob wrote:So, if I swapped the trigger group out with something like this:
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-MP5-3 ... 89p159.htm
Would that be legal?
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
There should be a Great Big Sticky in the NFA Section.
How to build a legal Machine Gun
Context should include the process and requirements necessary to become a FFL/SOT Manufacturer and the associated cost, record keeping...etc.
I think that would at least weed out some of the multiple request on any forum on the subject, and leave the folks that know these things available to answer more less redundant questions on the subject matter.
That's my $0.02 plus interest.
How to build a legal Machine Gun
Context should include the process and requirements necessary to become a FFL/SOT Manufacturer and the associated cost, record keeping...etc.
I think that would at least weed out some of the multiple request on any forum on the subject, and leave the folks that know these things available to answer more less redundant questions on the subject matter.
That's my $0.02 plus interest.
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
Certainly not legal to do so but that has been answered.
To more fully answer your specific question I thought I would throw this in here:
HK "MP" style guns approved for sale as semi-auto guns have a shelf welded into the receiver to prevent a full auto trigger assembly from being inserted. If you look at the picture of the part you linked you will see there are holes in the front and the rear for takedown pins. The semi auto trigger assemblies do not have front pins, the front slides onto the aforementioned "shelf".
Now the ATF says that if you remove that shelf and drill holes to allow the full auto assembly to be inserted then you have made a machine gun. Again, it doesn't matter what you actually put in the gun or what it can do...if you drill those holes you have a machine gun.
Tread carefully. Honestly you could get exactly what you want without the happy switch for a LOT less money and, at least from an operational perspective, the gun would be everything its full auto cousin is.
Hope this helps.
To more fully answer your specific question I thought I would throw this in here:
HK "MP" style guns approved for sale as semi-auto guns have a shelf welded into the receiver to prevent a full auto trigger assembly from being inserted. If you look at the picture of the part you linked you will see there are holes in the front and the rear for takedown pins. The semi auto trigger assemblies do not have front pins, the front slides onto the aforementioned "shelf".
Now the ATF says that if you remove that shelf and drill holes to allow the full auto assembly to be inserted then you have made a machine gun. Again, it doesn't matter what you actually put in the gun or what it can do...if you drill those holes you have a machine gun.
Tread carefully. Honestly you could get exactly what you want without the happy switch for a LOT less money and, at least from an operational perspective, the gun would be everything its full auto cousin is.
Hope this helps.
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
All these replies are utter nonsense. OP, you have the right idea... You sifted through the 40 naysayers and found the couple of that say it's OK. After all, everything on the Internet is true!
Do it! And don't forget to post pictures when you do!
THE INTERNET HAS SPOKEN!!!!
Do it! And don't forget to post pictures when you do!
THE INTERNET HAS SPOKEN!!!!
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
You would need a registered auto sear in order to convert it.
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Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
THe sheriff of Lumpkin County Georgia, Midget Mark McClure, manufactured an SBR in my home with no paperwork and then bragged about it on the stand and nothing happened to him, so 'Murica! Second Amendment! WHOOOEEEE! Thar's bald eagle s--t in my hair! Freedom! Make that thar machieeenygun and shoot chu a a-rab! Yeehaw!
PS. Enjoy federal prison.
PS. Enjoy federal prison.
The moments I was censored was the moment that I won. That's twice, now.Thanks jwbaker, et al, for my victories.
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
Thank you everyone who replied seriously.
I know that this was (in hind sight) a pretty stupid question, but you what's even more stupid? Not asking and becoming a felon by virtue of ignorance.
I know that this was (in hind sight) a pretty stupid question, but you what's even more stupid? Not asking and becoming a felon by virtue of ignorance.
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Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
And it can really, really happen.Dlob wrote:Thank you everyone who replied seriously.
I know that this was (in hind sight) a pretty stupid question, but you what's even more stupid? Not asking and becoming a felon by virtue of ignorance.
Ask. Even if you have to wade through mountains of crap for an answer. None of this stuff is worth a day in jail or a second in handcuffs.
The moments I was censored was the moment that I won. That's twice, now.Thanks jwbaker, et al, for my victories.
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
27k is going ratePrince Yamato wrote:No, it's not legal. If you want full-auto, you need to fork over $10-20k for a sear pack or registered lower. THEN you can have your happy switch.Would that be legal? I've read like 40 different pieces that says it's illegal to manufacture a fully auto firearm, but I found a couple of places that seemed to make it sound like this was OK because it's a conversion, not a manufacture?...
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
You can get a plastic sef grip clipped and pinned and a Fa pack, the grind the pack according to some
Internet instructions, and make a Fa mp5.
And if the fuzz catches you then spend 10-20 in pound your ass prison if u like that vacation plan
Internet instructions, and make a Fa mp5.
And if the fuzz catches you then spend 10-20 in pound your ass prison if u like that vacation plan
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
The challenges are multiple, but, not insurmountable. I agree that the only viable alternatives would be to buy a pre-86 conversion (like AWC) or obtain a 02 SOT. Remember, even back in the pre 1986 era you couldn't transfer a foreign made NFA to an individual, hence the conversions. I'd go the 02 SOT route if you're really harsh on this.
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
ATF takes a dim view of getting an 07/02 for personal fun.
Then there's the whole $3,000/yr DoS/ITAR fee thing, record keeping, compliance, inspections, etc.
You don't just simply get a thumbs up in the mail so you get to have your cake and eat it too.
Beyond that, MP5's are a veritable mess so far as toys in the NFA game go. There are a dozen different conversion methods out there, with even more dozens of different variations within them. Some are worth more than others, and some have been deemed illegal after the 1986 ban by the ATF. You'll find "registered MP5 sears" for sale for a few thousand dollars, but they can't legally be used to convert a semi gun because it requires the modification of other parts which the ATF considers creation of a new (post '86) machine gun, etc. etc.
If you want an MP5 type weapon with a happy switch, you'll want to do some serious due diligence and then be ready to break out your checkbook and cut a ~$20-30k check.
As a competitive sub-gun shooter/RO and having shot two different MP5 clones/conversions, I don't find the MP5 experience to be worth that kind of cash. A "crappy" SWD M11/9 sporting a Lage Max-31 is a much more enjoyable platform IMO; both as the trigger-puller *AND* as the R.O. responsible for keeping trigger-pullers safe. The M11/Max31 is quicker/easier/safer to clear malfunctions, the magazines are easier and faster to change (and load), checking/flagging the chamber is easier/quicker, the trigger is much more crisp and predictable, the gun doesn't foul as quickly, it doesn't malfunction due to fouling as easily, and the list goes on. Not to mention you can buy a M11/Max31 setup and still have enough money left over for a belt fed and a *TON* of accessories, a stemple/stirling or two, or three reisings, etc.
That said, if F/A MP5's were available for say $3-4k or less, I wouldn't have a problem putting one in my safe -- it's a very neat firearm with a pretty cool functional design and a lot of interesting history. Just not $20-30k worth in my book.
Then there's the whole $3,000/yr DoS/ITAR fee thing, record keeping, compliance, inspections, etc.
You don't just simply get a thumbs up in the mail so you get to have your cake and eat it too.
Beyond that, MP5's are a veritable mess so far as toys in the NFA game go. There are a dozen different conversion methods out there, with even more dozens of different variations within them. Some are worth more than others, and some have been deemed illegal after the 1986 ban by the ATF. You'll find "registered MP5 sears" for sale for a few thousand dollars, but they can't legally be used to convert a semi gun because it requires the modification of other parts which the ATF considers creation of a new (post '86) machine gun, etc. etc.
If you want an MP5 type weapon with a happy switch, you'll want to do some serious due diligence and then be ready to break out your checkbook and cut a ~$20-30k check.
As a competitive sub-gun shooter/RO and having shot two different MP5 clones/conversions, I don't find the MP5 experience to be worth that kind of cash. A "crappy" SWD M11/9 sporting a Lage Max-31 is a much more enjoyable platform IMO; both as the trigger-puller *AND* as the R.O. responsible for keeping trigger-pullers safe. The M11/Max31 is quicker/easier/safer to clear malfunctions, the magazines are easier and faster to change (and load), checking/flagging the chamber is easier/quicker, the trigger is much more crisp and predictable, the gun doesn't foul as quickly, it doesn't malfunction due to fouling as easily, and the list goes on. Not to mention you can buy a M11/Max31 setup and still have enough money left over for a belt fed and a *TON* of accessories, a stemple/stirling or two, or three reisings, etc.
That said, if F/A MP5's were available for say $3-4k or less, I wouldn't have a problem putting one in my safe -- it's a very neat firearm with a pretty cool functional design and a lot of interesting history. Just not $20-30k worth in my book.
Re: Full auto trigger packs on MP5 clone
Dlob wrote:Hi everyone!
New guy trying to find my path in the NFA world. Haven't yet formed a trust, but will be getting there shortly. In the mean time, I'm reading and learning as much as I can.
One of the guns on my firearms "bucket list" is a full-auto MP5 (silenced). So I started looking around and found this:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/compone ... l?Itemid=0
First and second NFA items on that would be a) a shoulder stock to convert the pistol config into a SBR and b) a suppressor of some sort. All well and good, I have that part understood.
Onto the full-auto part. It specifically says in the description that it comes with a full auto bolt carrier. So, if I swapped the trigger group out with something like this:
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-MP5-3 ... 89p159.htm
Would that be legal? I've read like 40 different pieces that says it's illegal to manufacture a fully auto firearm, but I found a couple of places that seemed to make it sound like this was OK because it's a conversion, not a manufacture?...
How's that work? Is it possible I could end up with a functional MP5-SD clone for $3000?
Here, read this
http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/htm ... a_conv.HTM
When you are done, re-post and I'll quiz you on the difference between Registered Receiver, Registered Sear, Registered Trigger Group, etc.