Trust rule change question

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jlwilliams
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Trust rule change question

Post by jlwilliams » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:00 pm

I have heard about a proposed rule change that would require trusts to get CLEO sign offs. Has that happened?

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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by propeine » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:23 pm

jlwilliams wrote:I have heard about a proposed rule change that would require trusts to get CLEO sign offs. Has that happened?
41P is what you're referring to and no it has not yet but the comment period is over.

Dlob
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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by Dlob » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:16 pm

If I recall, the next time 41P would be expected to come out would be in May this year, though it could easily be punted another 6 months (like has happened 3 or 4 times already).

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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by Kramer » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:20 pm

Dlob wrote:If I recall, the next time 41P would be expected to come out would be in May this year, though it could easily be punted another 6 months (like has happened 3 or 4 times already).
Yeah hopefully it will get punted for a few years.

birdengineer
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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by birdengineer » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:46 pm

I certainly hope it will get punted again, I don't have the money for multiple can purchases and stamp purchases before May/June. ;)

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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by LawBob » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:55 pm

As proposed, every Responsible Person (i.e., anyone who can touch the NFA items in your trust) would have to get fingerprinted and CLEO signature = but that is likely for only FUTURE purchases.

Lots of issues. Are prior purchases exempt? They would almost certainly have to be. What about future responsible persons (ones not even born yet?) as outlined in a succession planning portion of a trust (the Resulting Beneficiaries)?

Gun ranges that own NFA as an LLC whose "responsible persons" include the general public (while on the facility), do they need everyone in town fingerprinted to get new NFA items?

I've heard of some trust having as many as 8 "friends" on the trust as trustees...bad idea. It's legal, but I hope not too many machine guns are in trust now. There are a lot of bad idea trusts out there and as the mechanics of the current grantor dies, and succession happens, I ofter wonder how many of these trust, or rather, how many MGs will be in la-la land contraband and have to be returned to the BATFE.

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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by tootall » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:35 am

OT, my son is my successor trustee... so when I get run over by the life bus, he is still golden... and with NFA things.

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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by Bendersquint » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:28 am

tootall wrote:OT, my son is my successor trustee... so when I get run over by the life bus, he is still golden... and with NFA things.
Don't need a trust to accomplish the same thing, he's an heir. He would get them anyway.

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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by Kramer » Sun May 10, 2015 10:45 am

The ATF said that they would respond to all valid comments on the 41P. Has anyone received a reply from the ATF for their comment? I am still waiting for a reply.

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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by O2HeN2 » Sun May 10, 2015 11:08 am

Kramer wrote:Has anyone received a reply from the ATF for their comment?
Not moi.

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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by Joker31D » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:35 pm

Maybe off topic but just because someone is an heir doesn't mean they are able to take possession, right? I thought if they weren't on the Trust they would have to reapply for your item and the items would have to go to a dealer until they get the stamp, if it hasn't been issued in a certain amount of time but if they are on the trust they just take possession because they inherit the trust. I could be wrong, that's why I'm asking but that's how it was explained by my lawyer.
BTW, I went to a Lawyer to get mine who has written trusts for most of the class 3 community in the state. I didnt go to a website to get a maybe valid trust.
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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by MJF1911 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:05 pm

Form 5s are processed pretty fast, and there is a grace period. A dealer couldn't take possession without a F4 to them.
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Prince Yamato
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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by Prince Yamato » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:50 pm

FWIW, I heard from an Austin Sheriff deputy, that the comments the ATF was paying most attention to were from Sheriff's and CLEOs and from what the deputy said- echoing his superior- there was no way the new trust rules would pass. There are simply too many people with NFA items and the chiefs said that they don't want to waste their time on the flood of people that will come in for the trusts. He said that many other sheriffs were echoing what his superior stated. It's a worthless rule that will bog down legit law enforcement. I guess the people bugging the sheriff were some pretty wealthy donors too, because he said that the words got ugly, like, "Do you know who I am and how much money I make? I'm not going to be fingerprinted like a common criminal," ugly.

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Re: Trust rule change question

Post by Joker31D » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:22 pm

From what I read from ASA the CLEO sign off is going away and the Trust issue will be a thing of the past because thats why most people use a Trust anyway, The fingerprint thing is a small issue in the digital age, digital fingerprints are just as identifiable and easier to track from afar for LEO's at least on the Federal level (My Experience)
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