Complicated Class 3 question? I think!

[giranger]

A buddy of mine is currently an FFL, soon to be 02/07. He's in one state I'm in another. He discussed bringing me in as a sales rep (on commission). He could provide an agent letter stating I represent the company and allowed to posses, transport firearms, ammunition and silencers owned by said company. I would be using his FFL/SOT within the scopes of my duties.

In Chapter 9 Transfers of NFA Firearms, 9.5.2 Possession of firearms by employees of FFLs/SOTs for employers’ business purposes. No “transfer” under the NFA occurs when an FFL/SOT permits a bona fide employee to take custody of its registered NFA firearms for purposes within the employee’s scope of employment and for the business purposes of the FFL/SOT. Therefore, no approved ATF transfer form is required when employees take custody of firearms under these circumstances. In addition, the interstate delivery of a firearm to the employee and the employee’s receipt of the firearm would not violate the GCA.

So just to get the consensus is this all OK? So basically company makes said firearm/silencer, mails to me, I sell using his license? Thanks

[sillycon]

A buddy of mine is currently an FFL, soon to be 02/07. He's in one state I'm in another. He discussed bringing me in as a sales rep (on commission). He could provide an agent letter stating I represent the company and allowed to posses, transport firearms, ammunition and silencers owned by said company. I would be using his FFL/SOT within the scopes of my duties.

In Chapter 9 Transfers of NFA Firearms, 9.5.2 Possession of firearms by employees of FFLs/SOTs for employers’ business purposes. No “transfer” under the NFA occurs when an FFL/SOT permits a bona fide employee to take custody of its registered NFA firearms for purposes within the employee’s scope of employment and for the business purposes of the FFL/SOT. Therefore, no approved ATF transfer form is required when employees take custody of firearms under these circumstances. In addition, the interstate delivery of a firearm to the employee and the employee’s receipt of the firearm would not violate the GCA.

So just to get the consensus is this all OK? So basically company makes said firearm/silencer, mails to me, I sell using his license? Thanks

If you are a bona-fide employee, then it seems that ATF has provided you with your answer (save for leaving out the 5320.20 necessary to move the items interstate).

Beyond that, I think your best option is to speak with a lawyer experienced in this realm of things.

In your shoes, were I a bona-fide employee, I'd personally be documenting every single sale attempt/customer contact in the event ATF ever suggests that maybe you two are just gaming them to try and "beat the system". I'd also want a LOT of demos lined up (with written proof) before ever taking delivery of the first item - but being cautious like that is just my nature.

[66427vette]

^He would not need travel forms. Are you going to be on payroll?

[Bendersquint]

^He would not need travel forms. Are you going to be on payroll?

More importantly are you going to be an RP or not?

[giranger]

Yes I would be on payroll, on commission.

[RJT]

I think the answer some are looking for is, is he going to list you on his FFL as an employee, or partner?

[Bendersquint]

I think the answer some are looking for is, is he going to list you on his FFL as an employee, or partner?

Exactly, is he going to be an RP if no then you are playing with fire.

[RJT]

I think the answer some are looking for is, is he going to list you on his FFL as an employee, or partner?

Exactly, is he going to be an RP if no then you are playing with fire.

In other words, I could work for SRI as a salesman, but unless "B" puts me on the FFL, I can't posses any of the inventory.

[giranger]

Ok, so I have to be listed as an employee on his ffl? And yes I would be an employee. Thanks all just trying to get the concensus to make sure it's all legit.

[Bendersquint]

Ok, so I have to be listed as an employee on his ffl? And yes I would be an employee. Thanks all just trying to get the concensus to make sure it's all legit.

RP is what you need to be....RESPONSIBLE PARTY.

[giranger]

Ok, so I have to be listed as an employee on his ffl? And yes I would be an employee. Thanks all just trying to get the concensus to make sure it's all legit.

RP is what you need to be....RESPONSIBLE PARTY.

OK, Now I know what RP means LOL. And yes I would be a RP, no need to throw myself or him under the bus for something stupid. This would be a legitimate business deal. I already have my own CL3 so no need for more just for the heck of it.

[renegade]

Ok, so I have to be listed as an employee on his ffl? And yes I would be an employee. Thanks all just trying to get the concensus to make sure it's all legit.

There is no place to list employees on an FFL. So forget that.

It is legit if you are a legit employee. The fact you are even asking suggests you are not.

Is your only salary commission?

Is this your only job?

The Glock, Sig, etc., salesman who have NFA are F/T salaried folks. It is not disputeable they are real employees.

[giranger]

Ok, so I have to be listed as an employee on his ffl? And yes I would be an employee. Thanks all just trying to get the concensus to make sure it's all legit.

There is no place to list employees on an FFL. So forget that.

It is legit if you are a legit employee. The fact you are even asking suggests you are not.

Is your only salary commission?

Is this your only job?

The Glock, Sig, etc., salesman who have NFA are F/T salaried folks. It is not disputeable they are real employees.

I stated on my initial post Im currently not an employee and he hasnt yet gotten all his licenses. So yes right now before anything happens I'm just trying to find out if this is legit. We havent really discussed too much just yet. Would my only salary just be commision? yes as little as we have talked so far. Is this my only job? No. I guess I would really need to ask ATF on what is considered an employee or not just too make sure. Like I said def not trying to scam anything he just suggested it and I'm trying to get the facts of what is legal and what isnt so no one gets into trouble. THanks

[sillycon]

If you already have an SOT in your name, then just have him Form 3 the items to your existing FFL/SOT -- problem solved.

[giranger]

If you already have an SOT in your name, then just have him Form 3 the items to your existing FFL/SOT -- problem solved.

Apparently you didnt read any of my post at all!!

[sillycon]

Apparently you don't recall your own posts -- you stated you have "[your] own CL3". Perhaps you misrepresented your license status, but your statement indicates (to me at least) that you're already an 01/03 (aside from your friend getting his 07/02) - hence my statement.

While my suggesting you just F3 them to your own SOT - which you stated you had - technically "sidestepped" your original post, it did in fact address the "real" issue in your original post -- that of your being able to sell products developed by your friend (on his 07/02) without any worry of going to "federal pound me in the ass prison".

[giranger]

Apparently you don't recall your own posts -- you stated you have "[your] own CL3". Perhaps you misrepresented your license status, but your statement indicates (to me at least) that you're already an 01/03 (aside from your friend getting his 07/02) - hence my statement.

While my suggesting you just F3 them to your own SOT - which you stated you had - technically "sidestepped" your original post, it did in fact address the "real" issue in your original post -- that of your being able to sell products developed by your friend (on his 07/02) without any worry of going to "federal pound me in the ass prison".

Sorry for the confusion, my stating CL3 was cans not a license. If I had my own license I wouldn't be asking such questions. The only thing we would be transporting would be rifles and cans that he would be making once hes got his license to do so. Its hard to convey everything over the intraweb and everyone understand the whole picture

[GHEN]

The important thing to remember is there is no "one right answer". If BATFE were to investigate whether or not your relationship with the company was a valid "employee/representative" relationship they would look into the matter and weigh & measure the variables.

RP alone doesn't do it (but it wouldn't hurt).

Being a listed employee isn't necessarily needed or not needed.

I have been a sales rep for an 07/02 from another state so I have been in your shoes.

It will be fairly easy to determine if your actions are legitimate or not, but at the end of the day it will be an opinion. THe more paper you have on your side (RP, payroll status as an employee, etc.) will help.

Good luck,

GHEN

[David Hineline]

Yes you can be a salesman and take orders. His product can only be sold from his licensed address or at an in state gun show. You could transfer his product at a gun show in his state, but you are not in his state. He will have to ship orders to receiving FFLs through common carriers, he/you can't take them to people/ffls across state lines to transfer.