How is a shoestring a Machinegun

-fate- · Post by **-fate-** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:38 am

I have seen this mentioned several time and I don't understand...what is the deal ?

-fate-

ArevaloSOCOM · Post by **ArevaloSOCOM** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:03 am

Your showstrings tied a certain way on a M-14 make it go Full atuo.

Thus.......................according to the ATF, it's a MG.

Your finger is also a MG if you bumpfire.

JPratt06 · Post by **JPratt06** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:10 am

It comes from an official ATF opinion letter. Some guy wrote them about the legality of bumping with a shoestring, and they wrote back saying it was an illegal mg. Makes a lotta sense, right? Shoestring = unregistered dias.

If anyone from the ATF is watching us (they probably have trolls here), I'd like to let them know that that ruling is one of the most absurdly illogical and stupid things I have ever read on the internet or anywhere else.

NewGunner · Post by **NewGunner** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:21 am

JPratt06 wrote: If anyone from the ATF is watching us (they probably have trolls here), I'd like to let them know that that ruling is one of the most absurdly illogical and stupid things I have ever read on the internet or anywhere else.

Run. Run now!

L1A1Rocker · Post by **L1A1Rocker** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:39 am

The ATF actually has a shoe string (with a round wire like a key chain ring tied to one end of it) logged into their evidence room. I've seen pictures posted of it. There is actually a long drawn case regarding the shoe string machine gun. You should be able to google it.

green0 · Post by **green0** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:21 am

I've seen it pictured. the ring is tied to one end, and the string goes through the hole in the back of the trigger guard, around the trigger, back around the trigger guard, and up to the bolt handle.

That's from memory could be wrong

jonharoy · Post by **jonharoy** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:54 am

http://www.mp5.net/info/2007-06-25%20St ... dacted.pdf

Here is a letter reversing the shoe string MG.

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lawless · Post by **lawless** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:18 am

ANYTHING, not just machined parts, Anything that makes a gun fire more than once with one pull of the trigger is deemed a machine gun to them. No matter how ridiculous it is.

-fate- · Post by **-fate-** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:39 am

Thank You, that is amazing.

L1A1Rocker · Post by **L1A1Rocker** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:21 pm

lawless101aa wrote:ANYTHING, not just machined parts, Anything that makes a gun fire more than once with one pull of the trigger is deemed a machine gun to them. No matter how ridiculous it is.

But what about the "hellfire" triger bouncy thingy? ATF says that it is NOT a machinegun.

jimmym40a2 · Post by **jimmym40a2** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:24 pm

"Anything that makes a gun fire more than once with one pull of the trigger is deemed a machine gun to them" the trigger resets not "one pull" so it's not a machinegun...........

Selectedmarksman · Post by **Selectedmarksman** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:04 pm

Looks like Acting Chief Vasquez recanted the official position that shoe strings were "designed and intended" to convert semi-autos to full. Think somebody with some sense has made their way into the ATF, or was this latest (JUN 2007) ruling only to cover up the mistake that made them look so stupid?

L1A1Rocker · Post by **L1A1Rocker** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:19 pm

jimmym40a2 wrote:"Anything that makes a gun fire more than once with one pull of the trigger is deemed a machine gun to them" the trigger resets not "one pull" so it's not a machinegun...........

Not according to the ATF review of the Akins Accelerator. The trigger resets afert each bang on that device. But ATF still called it a machine gun.

JPratt06 · Post by **JPratt06** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:32 pm

Taking this a step further, since a machinegun can also be defined as a "collection of parts" that may be "readily converted" into an automatic weapon, John Doe is guilty of a felony if he goes to the range with his AR while wearing boots or tennis shoes. Constructive possession and all that jazz.

Just wear your crocs or or sandals and you should be ok

.

ArevaloSOCOM · Post by **ArevaloSOCOM** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:38 pm

Threads like these are proof why Parker Vs. D.C. must suceed setting up grounds to kill the 1986 MG ban.

The only thing worse than the ATF response to illegal machine guns is legal machine gun owners excuses as to why theirs are ok to own but illegally made ones are not.

Both the logics are f*cked up.

jimmym40a2 · Post by **jimmym40a2** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:23 pm

the Akin's Accellerator automatically reset the trigger so it was deemed a machine gun if I have read correctly

chevrofreak · Post by **chevrofreak** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:35 pm

L1A1Rocker wrote:
jimmym40a2 wrote:"Anything that makes a gun fire more than once with one pull of the trigger is deemed a machine gun to them" the trigger resets not "one pull" so it's not a machinegun...........
Not according to the ATF review of the Akins Accelerator. The trigger resets afert each bang on that device. But ATF still called it a machine gun.

If the gun continues to fire without the operator manually pulling the trigger for each shot, it's a machinegun. A shoestring basically acts as an external auto sear.

lawless · Post by **lawless** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:33 am

The hellfire still has to reset everytime. IIRC the shoestring is meant to hold down the sear so that it doesnt reset.

Golovko · Post by **Golovko** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:00 pm

lawless101aa wrote:..IIRC the shoestring is meant to hold down the sear so that it doesnt reset.

Nope. The whole point of the shoelace concept is that when the shoelace is pulled properly, the shoelace is too short for the charging handle and the trigger to simultaneously rest in their forwardmost positions. When the charging handle on the bolt carrier is almost fully forward, there is no slack remaining, so as it completes the last few millimeters of travel it pulls on the shoelace, which pulls the trigger rearward. The hammer is released just as if a normal semiauto shot were fired. When the bolt carrier cycles rearward under recoil, there is suddenly a great deal of slack available on the shoelace, so the trigger can reset as normal. Depending on the timing the hammer may be caught by the disconnector, but with all the slack in the shoelace the trigger is free to reset under its own spring tension, transferring the hammer from the disconnector to the sear. When the bolt carrier returns to battery the cycle repeats.

The only functional difference between the shoelace and a normal autosear is that the autosear typically acts directly upon the hammer, whereas the shoelace essentially becomes part of an autosear mechanism that relies upon the trigger/sear to complete the mechanism.

chrismartin · Post by **chrismartin** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:38 pm

This is what the ATF ruled as a machine gun...