Disapproved on a 5320.20

[YugoRPK]

Filed a 5320.20 to go shoot in Washington.

Disapproved for the following reason:

"Firearms are registered to a trust not individual. Also if you want to transport your NFA items in other locations you will need to submit a 5320.20 for EACH location you will want to possess the item(s) at."

The first sentence made no sense. I filed the full trust name in block 1 and signed the signature as owner as "trustee" . Are they saying I have to give the location and address of each rock pit and tree grove I go shooting at?

Trying to figure out how to word this thing to move a few trust owned SBR's into the neighboring state to go shooting.

[doubloon]

wtf?!

[YugoRPK]

I was thinking the guy just screwed up and put the bit about trusts in there as a mistake because he does it all the time. What really surprised me was the part about putting every location the rifles will be used at . I filled out the location as my dads address ( plus other locations in the state ) .

[doubloon]

None of it makes sense to me.

I've seen people on the webs claim to have gotten a form approved with multiple nondescript locations like just listing a few states but I've never tried it.

[YugoRPK]

I know. I see people saying all the time they just list a blanket (anywhere in the state) sort of thing. I resubmitted just listing my dads address. That will at least get me in the state. Not like anyone is going to question anything once they see the form 1 anyway. Not that anyone will even want to see that either. Ive never been asked for docs or actually seen anyone get asked for docs. Even when I lived in Washington and the use of silencers was illegal ( Thanks RanB ) and I'd shoot at public ranges I never got asked for docs..

[66427vette]

Different states= different form.

[ick]

Their reply used a sentence ending in a preposition?

[YugoRPK]

That was their reply. Grammar nazis need not apply at NFA.

[rimshaker]

Could be one of the newer staff that disapproved it.

Is your name actually the trust name also? (Joe Sixpack Trust)

[YugoRPK]

"My Initials" Trust.

[YugoRPK]

So I called the NFA branch and they told me I could submit the 5320.20 and I would have to list the GPS coordinates of the areas I would be shooting at and the 5320.20 was not good for anywhere in the state. Just the addresses listed.. No s--t.

[Modeler]

Quick question for those of us who are thinking about submitting at 5320.20 soon: How long did it take you to get a reply?

[YugoRPK]

I got a reply in 3 weeks door to door..

[Modeler]

I got a reply in 3 weeks door to door..

Thanks!

[rimshaker]

So I called the NFA branch and they told me I could submit the 5320.20 and I would have to list the GPS coordinates of the areas I would be shooting at and the 5320.20 was not good for anywhere in the state. Just the addresses listed.. No s--t.

[eastern_hunter]

Could make it essentially impossible to take a long trip to a place like Texas, stay several places, and hunt where one is able. Sheesh!!!

[ick]

Snarky response:

Item may travel and may be used within these GPS coordinates:

Between Longitude 116°55'17.71"W and 125°18'50.09"W and Latitude 45°59'49.98"N and 48°42'29.92"N.

Better get your own measurements, I did an approximate.

[YugoRPK]

Well it does appear that there has been a policy shift at the ATF NFA branch concerning 5320.20's. Ive already sent 3 new ones back with GPS coordinates of areas I usually go shooting at. It may be something Washington is requiring but it may be a overall policy . I don't know and you know how helpful phone service is at the NFA. I'm going to try doing the lat. and long. coordinates for the entire state and see if that flies.

[YugoRPK]

Lat: 48.| Long: -124.34 to Lat:48. Long: -117.12 south to Lat:45.70378

That should cover most of the state. I'll submit it and see what happens

[doubloon]

Hmmm, this could be fun.

I need to file a couple 5320s

[YugoRPK]

Filed 7 or 8 of them today. Out the cost of the stamps whatever the F--k that is. I'll make them work for their pencil pusher hourly wages figuring out where I'm talking about..

[Garrett]

As much as they like to make you think otherwise, ATF does not have the authority to regulate intra-state travel. That is why you have to file papers when you cross state lines, but not county/city/neighborhood/property lines. Any of those would fall under state law.

List one address and go. Travel freely within the state. Be aware of any state laws that may apply.

[YugoRPK]

From the NFA handbook...

https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/ ... 5320-8.pdf

13.8.3 One-year approval. If a person will be transporting his/her firearm(s) to the same location on acontinual basis, ATF will approve a transportation request for up to 1 year. Example: the person lives inState A, has a farm in State B (State B allows possession of the particular firearm), and wants to take thefirearm to the farm throughout the year. The person may request permission for a 1-year period totransport the firearm interstate to the farm. Any other interstate transportation would still require aseparate request and approval. Second example: the person lives in State A and wants to transporthis/her firearm to a site in State B where competitions and shoots occur several times a year (State Ballows possession of the particular firearm). The person may request permission for a 1-year period totransport the firearm interstate to the site for competitions and shoots. Any other interstatetransportation would still require a separate request and approval.

[Garrett]

From the NFA handbook...

https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/ ... 5320-8.pdf

While a somewhat handy reference, the NFA handbook is not the LAW. There are a number of instances in it where the ATF inferrs something when the actual legal requirements are less stringent. This is a good example of just that.

The best use I have found for the NFA Handbook is that it lists the actual legal references for a number of topics. Look up the topic in the Handbook, and then look up the actual text of the law.

The section of the Handbook you quote references 27 CFR 478.28 and 18 USC 922(a)(4). If you notice, both of those address interstate or foreign commerce. Once again, as much as they might want you to think otherwise, ATF has no authority to regulate intra-state commerce (transportation, in this instance. IMO, calling transportation of your own property commerce is a stretch to begin with, but that is a whole different topic.)

[L1A1Rocker]

From the NFA handbook...

https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/ ... 5320-8.pdf

While a somewhat handy reference, the NFA handbook is not the LAW. There are a number of instances in it where the ATF inferrs something when the actual legal requirements are less stringent. This is a good example of just that.

Another. The LAW says that if you move to another state, you have to inform ATF of the new location your silencer is kept. ATF says you have to tell them if you move within the same state - there is NO such law.