Are Bazookas prohibited?

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Are Bazookas prohibited?

Yes
1
6%
No
6
33%
Sometimes
2
11%
In some states
9
50%
 
Total votes: 18

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whiterussian1974
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Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by whiterussian1974 »

I know that smoothbore muzzle loading cannon are legal and no NFA issues.
Since Bazookas are just smoothbore pipes; and projectiles just model rocket motors w finned casings, are they legal?
No explosive filler of course. :wink:
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by YugoRPK »

Sure. Theyre legal just like any other piece of round tube. Its not much of a rocket launcher without the rockets. Not a DD. Your state may feel otherwise. Everyone always concentrates on federal law.
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by whiterussian1974 »

whiterussian1974 wrote:Since Bazookas are just smoothbore pipes; and projectiles just model rocket motors w finned casings, are they legal?
No explosive filler of course. :wink:
Yugo: thanks for input and voting. :)
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by usmcvet0331 »

Flame Throwers aren't either! =)
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by whiterussian1974 »

Aren't Flamethrowers limited by volume of fuel?
When we burn our fields for the coming yr, we use propane torches. But I think that there is an upper limit as to the volume that can be used w/o needing a License. Maybe 5 USGal? Not sure though.
I've even seen some farmers mount propane tanks to their truck beds or ATVs.
Each yr my cousins joke that we'll get Grandma a flamethrower for Xmas. She LOVES burning everything on the burn pile just above the creek.
Can you imagine a woman in her 90s dragging a wheeled 55 gal diesel barrel behind her? :lol:
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by johndoe3 »

Aren't Flamethrowers limited by volume of fuel?
When we burn our fields for the coming yr, we use propane torches. But I think that there is an upper limit as to the volume that can be used w/o needing a License. Maybe 5 USGal? Not sure though.
Ran across this today, touted as the world's first commercially available flamethrower--the XM42 (MSRP $899). Manufactured in the metro Detroit area.

http://xm42.com/

Image

The FAQ page at the above site answers the questions about laws on flamethrowers, and shows that CA and MD are the only 2 states with laws against or limiting flamethrowers.

Interesting, the company offers both right and left-hand models.
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by Joker31D »

Remember the Rounds for the Tube are a Destructive device. I thought they made the firing mechanism a DD but I guess not, wonder how they distinguish a mortar from a Bazooka then. maybe the round holding itself of if its gravity fed. I know the Mortar firing pin is the tube, you can replace the barrel all you want as long as it doesnt change the overall specs. too expensive for me to play with as a civvie.
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by whiterussian1974 »

Joker31D wrote:Remember the Rounds for the Tube are a Destructive device. I thought they made the firing mechanism a DD but I guess not, wonder how they distinguish a mortar from a Bazooka then. maybe the round holding itself of if its gravity fed. I know the Mortar firing pin is the tube, you can replace the barrel all you want as long as it doesnt change the overall specs. too expensive for me to play with as a civvie.
The 60mm model rockets are DD? I don't see how they could be.
And bazookas are electrically-initiated solid model-rocket engines. The tube section touching the casing is an anode and that touching the fins, a cathode. (IIRC)

We may need a former Infantryman to clarify. (Or someone better w web research. :? )
I imagine that RPGs and shoulder-launched missiles use a similar, though slightly more advanced, setup to initiate launch.
---
And mortars aren't restricted. Only the explosive filler would be. A mortar is just a tube w a nail at the bottom to act as firing pin. The rd is just a section of tubing with tapered ends and then a finned tube of smaller dia containing solid propellant. No material or design of that is prohibited, as is.
Fill the warhead w sand and all is good.
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by whiterussian1974 »

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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by Joker31D »

I was referring to the HE projectiles, whats the use in owning a mortar if it doesnt blow crap up? Its why I never bought or made one or one of the Spike's Havok Launchers. I was under the impression that a modern mortar was a NFA item, they have Rifling, I have fired both US and Russian Mortars in Afghanistan including the New GPS targeted models. I was required to learn the ins and outs of all weapons that had the potential to be in country because of my job. I'm one of the only people I know who has bought a SA-7 and a Stinger. Of course I bought them with US Government money but I bought them out of the back of a Toyota Hilux. It was noted in my award letter that I got him to throw in a free DShk and a Spencer Rifle that has US Cavalry Markings. I asked them if I could keep the Spencer but they said no, I did get them to donate it to the Cavalry Museum at Fort Riley. I did get to keep an Enfield and a Dragunov scope that I found behind the seat after they were cataloged.
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by Tony M. »

whiterussian1974 wrote: And mortars aren't restricted. Only the explosive filler would be. A mortar is just a tube w a nail at the bottom to act as firing pin. The rd is just a section of tubing with tapered ends and then a finned tube of smaller dia containing solid propellant. No material or design of that is prohibited, as is.
Fill the warhead w sand and all is good.
According to the BATF both Bazookas and mortars are considered DD's.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-g ... section-11

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-g ... section-10
Last edited by Tony M. on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by whiterussian1974 »

I'm unclear how mortars are classed as DD when breech-loading 8" steel pipes firing cannonballs are allowed? Is it just those Commercially made? We frequently fire pyrotechnic mortars on July 4th and they are legally sold in many states. TX, KS, MO, AR. They fire 3"OD cardboard casings using solid-rocket motors and go about 250' in the air b/f the motor burns through and ignites the payload.

Those commercial firework rockets that fire about 1000' in the air b/f bursting into concussive blasts or showering sparks, are those also DDs? I know that the techs need special handling licenses to work w that quantity of powder. Do they have the equivalent of 7/02 SOT for pyrotechnics?
---
Same ? for shoulder launched model rockets. Are just the US MIL models DD or if the model rocket motors were replaced by co2 cartridges and fired from PVC tubes would those also be DD?

I'm not being smart alek. Genuinely want to know b/f I commit a Fed Crime. (Or to shut up if one has already been committed. :( )
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by BISHOP »

There are too many variations.
It seems that if its reloadable then the launching device is considered a DD.
Examples
* RPG-7
* RPG-2
* 40mm launchers (various configs)
* Mortars

But if its considered to be disposable then its not.
* M72 LAW
* Other country variations of the US made LAW (RPG-18, 22, 75)
* AT-4

But then there is a couple that don't make sense like the...
* PIAT
That is reloadable but you can usually find them in original condition and not demilled.

Black powder, muzzle loading items like rifles and cannons are usually exempt.


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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by Tony M. »

whiterussian1974 wrote:I'm unclear how mortars are classed as DD when breech-loading 8" steel pipes firing cannonballs are allowed? Is it just those Commercially made? We frequently fire pyrotechnic mortars on July 4th and they are legally sold in many states. TX, KS, MO, AR. They fire 3"OD cardboard casings using solid-rocket motors and go about 250' in the air b/f the motor burns through and ignites the payload.

Those commercial firework rockets that fire about 1000' in the air b/f bursting into concussive blasts or showering sparks, are those also DDs? I know that the techs need special handling licenses to work w that quantity of powder. Do they have the equivalent of 7/02 SOT for pyrotechnics?
---
Same ? for shoulder launched model rockets. Are just the US MIL models DD or if the model rocket motors were replaced by co2 cartridges and fired from PVC tubes would those also be DD?

I'm not being smart alek. Genuinely want to know b/f I commit a Fed Crime. (Or to shut up if one has already been committed. :( )
Muzzle loading cannons don't use fixed ammunition, so are exempt.

Mortars are considered DD's because the fire fixed ammunition and have a bore over .5" The mortar cup is considered a firearm even without a tube. Without a tube, it doesn't have a caliber, so it's a title 1 firearm. with the tube, if it's over .5" it's a DD.

Pyrotechnics aren't classified as DD's because they don't use what the ATF classifies as fixed ammunition. As a rule, if the common method of ignition is a fuse, it doesn't fall within the purview of the NFA or GCA. The ATF still regulates explosives, but under a different set of guidelines and regulatory authority.

There are special licenses required for pyrotechnics over a certain weight or classification. I'm not entirely familiar with the rules for that, but I have friends with the licenses. It is something similar to an 07/02 but with different rules, requirements and 'privileges'.

The Bazookas are a little murkier, and I've never seen the delineation clarified. As a general rule what the other poster wrote about the reloadability seems to be the line of demarcation. Something fuse ignited might be acceptable, but without a letter from the ATF, I don't know that I'd risk my hide on anything that didn't fire commercial fireworks. (a piece of 1" PVC with a plate covering 3/4 of the back side shoots bottle rockets surprisingly well).

Flame throwers are Not federally regulated as far as I know. They don't fire fixed ammunition, so don't fall under the regulation of NFA, GCA etc. There may be some other agency that regulates them on a fed level, but not that I can find.
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by whiterussian1974 »

Bishop and Tony M: Thanks for all the info you provided.

I think that now I understand that the nature of Fixed-cartridge vs separate propellant bag clarifies the issue for me.
And reloadability is also something that I'll add to my knowledge banks. :)

I knew that potato launchers which were propelled by spraying a flammable material into the breech were allowed. So the fixed vs separate powder argument makes sense.
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by Joker31D »

I do know that there are restrictions on Model rockets and it has to do with the composition of the SRB and there is another restriction on how high it goes that the FAA has placed on the hobby. There is a lot of trust that was built up in the Model Rocket industry and they self regulate a lot of the restrictions, but they spent decades not knowing if some dumbass who set his house on fire would kill it all. Post 9/11 there was a lot of regulations imposed on flight heights and duration, there was also licensing that was imposed by the ATF, Hence the E in BATF-E The E was never there before and in most states all you needed was a driver's license to buy some very potent Explosives. I have been a member of the international Association of Explosives Handlers and we had a huge amount of changes imposed, even in Licensing. I was allowed to play with the stuff because of my Military Job. (Not EOD btw.) I actually had my card pulled in Afghanistan because of a Controlled Det that went a little too far, Note to self: F*ck it, use the whole block is not a unit of measure. Especially when trying to blow up a 20lb Propane tank of AN/FO. Civil Affairs had to spend a lot of money that day. I lost my card for 20 days on that one. Humiliating when you need to bring EOD guys in to blow a wall when you are the one who usually feeds them trace details.

A bazooka does imply that you will re-use the tube. I know Mortars are regulated and you can replace the whole tube but the Baseplate with the pin is regulated. I have seen countless ones that were demilled outside of VFW's and base Museums by Drilling holes in the tube. Every-time I see one I think if they only knew.
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by usmcvet0331 »

johndoe3 wrote:
Aren't Flamethrowers limited by volume of fuel?
When we burn our fields for the coming yr, we use propane torches. But I think that there is an upper limit as to the volume that can be used w/o needing a License. Maybe 5 USGal? Not sure though.
Ran across this today, touted as the world's first commercially available flamethrower--the XM42 (MSRP $899). Manufactured in the metro Detroit area.

http://xm42.com/

Image

The FAQ page at the above site answers the questions about laws on flamethrowers, and shows that CA and MD are the only 2 states with laws against or limiting flamethrowers.

Interesting, the company offers both right and left-hand models.
Holly crap! I want one!
Back to DD's an M79 or M203 is a DD. It's useless as a DD w/o DD rounds. The Marine and little boy in me still wants one.
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by YugoRPK »

I'd still like to have an RPG-7 WITH a few rounds.
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Re: Are Bazookas prohibited?

Post by BISHOP »

Get it out of your system.
Watch these guys. They have 3-4 videos shooting the real stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLj4zaoMkRE


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