Pistol caliber carbine questions...

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sawgunner2001
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Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by sawgunner2001 »

Greetings!

I'm trying to decide if I want a 9mm SBR, and if I do, which one to seriously consider. Ultimately, it will be fired suppressed 98% of the time. The intended use of this carbine would be primarily a range toy, but it would also stand duty as the bedside weapon of choice. Some of the questions I'm trying to answer are:

I've read that blowback operated rifles, even suppressed, are quite loud due to ejection port bark. Is this true, and if so is this a universal quality demonstrated by most (all?) blowback operated carbines? I'm considering an AR9 as well as the CZ Scorpion (pending 922r compliance kits :roll: ) and am concerned about this "loudness."

I've also considered the Sig MPX, despite it's barrel being longer than I'd like. But, reports I've read are that the gas operating system of this weapon is a little quieter than blowback operated carbines.

Lastly, I'm considering MP5 clones. I put this last because these little buggars are expensive. If this route is truly the route to go (which I'm not entirely opposed to), I've got a lot of research to do to make sure I buy a quality clone. Some honest feedback concerning the "suppression-ability" of this platform vs. others would be appreciated.

FWIW, I do not currently own a pistol caliber suppresser. I figured I'd ensure that I want a pistol caliber carbine first, followed by the research about which suppressor to stick on the end of it. I do, however, own a Specwar 762 and have experience shooting 223, 308, and 300BLK suppressed. FWIW, I find that shooting my 7.5" 300BLK (subsonic) is loud to my ear due to what I presume to be port bark and action noise. This despite it being obviously quieter to anyone else nearby. If this will be the case with a 9mm carbine, I'd rather not invest in one.

Any input concerning the suppression qualities of these (or other) 9mm SBR's would be greatly appreciated.
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L1A1Rocker
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by L1A1Rocker »

AR-15 300blk SBR (8.5 inch IIRC) shooting sub-sonic suppressed is quieter than an MP-5 SD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2WoPBLGYx8


That's about all I can contribute.
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Enfield577
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by Enfield577 »

I have an AR in 9mm, with homebuilt suppressor (I make them), it is like reasonably well suppressed 22 and you have the 32 round Uzi mag. Only problem with the AR is you get a lot of spring/buffer noise.

I also have a Skorpion, with decent k baffle can the 32 acp is silly quiet.

I would say go for the Skorpion
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batman4706
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by batman4706 »

The spring/buffer noise can be taken care of with a JP 9MM captured spring. I have one and it works great. A little pricey, but nice. I have a a 9MM SBR that is very quiet with 147 gr reloads and an Octane 45.
kbinmt
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by kbinmt »

+1 on the JP Silent Capture Spring. I have one on my 9mm AR and 300 BLK AR. Huge difference when shooting suppressed.
I built the 9mm just for something to do, because I felt that the 300 BLK was an all around winner. Now, the 9mm AR with an octane is what I shoot the most. I reload 147 gr coated lead for cheap.
I have looked at the scorpions as SBR projects, but the MP5 variants just called to me. I find it funny now how much I like PCCs, although the BLK is going pronghorn hunting this season.
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Enfield577
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by Enfield577 »

Thanks gents, I will check out this spring thing and see If I can get one sent over from US to NZ
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sawgunner2001
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by sawgunner2001 »

I appreciate the suggestions. It sounds like the AR9 isn't as noisy as I've read about on the interwebs. This seems to be the safest way to go.
Deathray
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by Deathray »

I'll let you know about the Scorpion Evo 3 once TROS clears through his backlog and gets to my 18mm to UZI adapter and I can try it out with my Avenger.

I know my Mini UZI SBR was very pleasant to shoot with the Avenger, I imagine the Scorpion will be as well as the bolts are of similar weight. I too am waiting for the 922r kits despite my SBR form 1 being approved months ago.
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by tripntx »

I have AR-15 SBR's: 8.2" 300BLK, 4" 22LR, 12" 5.56, 12.5" 277WLV, in other words, I love to SBR AR's.

I have a MPX 8" 9mm purchased 1st week in June, mailed Form 1 the same day I purchased it as well as ordered the retractable stock and extra mags. The MPX in IMHO is a better SBR for pistol cal than AR if you are concerned about overall length when stock is collapsed since the MPX doesn't need a tube.

I cannot comment on the Scorpion Evo or MP5 clones since I don't own one, other than to say I chose the MPX instead of them.
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by speed6 »

I have a 7" 9mm AR-15. I did a writeup on it in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=135371#p923906

It is kinda loud, action noise is bad. I may have to pick up a JSE spring system now that it looks like they help.

As far as a pistol can, I have a Ti-Rant 9 and it suppresses well and is easy to disassemble. I also have a thompson machine ISIS-2 but I really dont shoot it since I go the Ti-Rant. I was going to go with an Octane (easier to disassemble, awesome service, very durable) but I got a really good deal on the T-Rant.
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by Artful »

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jlwilliams
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by jlwilliams »

Have you thought about an Uzi? Rugged as all hell. Parts are easy to get and the gun is easy to work on and unlikely to need a lot of attention. They look as badass as hell, because they are as badass as hell. They don't have any of the issues that you sometimes run into with weapons designed in rifle calibers being converted to 9mm. The Uzi and 9mm go together like Uzi and 9mm.
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BadKarmaZeroSix
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by BadKarmaZeroSix »

Patriot Ordinance is releasing a 9mm AR end of this year...msrp under $1k...
It's always the quiet guy in the room...with a suppressor.
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by batman4706 »

I have SBRs in 9MM, 40 S&W, 45ACP and 300 blk with JP Silent springs in all of them.. I needed to test fire my 9MM the other day and went in my backyard to do it, even though I live about 4 blks from the police station in the middle of a small town.

Rudy at Macon Armory would be a good guy to talk to about blowback vs DI. I have one of his DI 45s and it's great.
sawgunner2001
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by sawgunner2001 »

I appreciate all the replies and feedback.

Speed6, that was one of the threads I found when I first began researching this topic. Thanks for the heads up, though.
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by thebangswitch »

Image

They can be pretty quiet and they won't cost $1+ a round like subsonic 300blk
Ash
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by Ash »

I only shoot this one suppressed and it is just as quiet as my other suppressed 9mm hand guns. I don't run the silent spring and do not notice the port bark or the spring bowing noise. I love this little AR. It is just good ole fun, cheep and quiet to shoot. I was on the fence whether or not to form 1 this one or not, so I stuck the ugly brace on it, to keep it as a pistol because I like throwing it in my truck and crossing state lines too much to worry about another form to keep up with.
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Eric-M
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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by Eric-M »

I didn't realize JP made a captured spring for 9mm ARs. I have a couple questions regarding those. Do they work with a CMMG bolt? How well do they work with different types of ammo? Is there any adjustment?

I was also wondering if increasing bolt mass will result in an overall quieter operation. I already have the Heavy Buffers adjustable 9mm buffer that I can set up as heavy as 12.5 oz.

My setup is a 9mm AR with a 2.75" barrel. I run a can full time.

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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by Capt. Link. »

A quality MP-5 clone is the best choice in pistol caliber carbines in my opinion.The H&K roller lock is a type of delayed blow-back that will hold the case longer than any other non locked breech weapon.This means much less port noise and gas in your face.The accuracy is 100yds beer can capable and its possibly the most controllable in rapid fire because of the delayed action.It dose not suffer from excessive action noise either.Without a gas system and the ability of the weapon to be disassembled without any tools makes cleaning this much easier than most weapons.Any suppressed weapon will get fouled by carbon and easy cleaning helps a whole lot.Most of my experience with this is with the MP5SD fa version and I have great regard for its reliability even after extensive shooting sessions in the field and on the range.

The Uzi is also a very good weapon and less expensive than a roller lock.It is not as accurate and I think heaver than the H&K but is very well made with parts available and short because of its telescoping bolt.A IMI barrel is possibly one of the toughest barrels around and may outlive us all with care and no full auto use.The Israelis are serious about quality with all parts properly hardened and finished.

The last is not a ultra high quality weapon but may fill your needs.The Feather AT9 uses UZI mags and resembles the WW2 grease gun.Its a simple blow-back weapon that needs no tools for stripping to clean it.I have found it to be reliable and durable because of the utter simplicity of the design.

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Re: Pistol caliber carbine questions...

Post by eastern_hunter »

I have a Colt 10" 9mm SMG upper. I run with a standard SBR or an M16 lower with mag well adapter. Have used it with a standard 9mm heavy buffer and an old AAC rate reducer. Used it in local subgun matches against MP5s and it did very well for me. Recently replaced the FH with a TROS 3 lug and run with an Octane 9HD. Great fun and cheap to shoot with subsonic handloads.

Son has an MPX with an 8" bbl that he runs with an Octane 9 HD.

The MPX is quieter I think and the magazines are definitely better though very hard to acquire at the moment. A very nice semi-auto piece.

Some have complained abt blowback from the MPX with a can, but I don't find it objectionable.
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