308 aero preision SBR

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Would you want a AR-10 SBR

yes
7
50%
no
3
21%
whats the point
4
29%
 
Total votes: 14

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Michael Black 47
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308 aero preision SBR

Post by Michael Black 47 »

Looking at doing a build of a 7.62 X 51 AR-10 SBR. I am using every position lower and upper to start the process. I was wondering if anyone has experience here with this caliber in this configuration. I also plan to run this suppressed on a specwar 7.62. Just one to get past some things on the performance that I should expect and any technical issues I should look out for while doing my build. I know it will be considered more louder with the shorter barrel and the gas will be increased to. I've also seen videos to where the charging handle hops rapidly back and forth even when BCG has already depressed back into the stock or coming forward.

Looking for your input and experience and also some considerations that I could do to help improve the build itself. I have my AR15 SBR set and secured on how I'm going to do it.
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CanOfWhooppass
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by CanOfWhooppass »

Have you shot one before? I've shot two, and neither made me wish I had one. One was at a carbine class and the guy was usualy slower and some things like weird positions and weak side shooting was giving him real trouble. I know you got an AR-15 SBR, so if your having fun, who cares, but if you havent already shot one, I'd try to do that before I built one.

If you build I'd recomend an adjustable gas block or hydrolic buffer like blitzcraig. Recoil impulse is sharp despite the weight on them.
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Michael Black 47
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by Michael Black 47 »

CanOfWhooppass wrote:Have you shot one before? I've shot two, and neither made me wish I had one. One was at a carbine class and the guy was usualy slower and some things like weird positions and weak side shooting was giving him real trouble. I know you got an AR-15 SBR, so if your having fun, who cares, but if you havent already shot one, I'd try to do that before I built one.

If you build I'd recomend an adjustable gas block or hydrolic buffer like blitzcraig. Recoil impulse is sharp despite the weight on them.
Well I know how my 556 sbr is going to be built that is easy. Also I have not shot one before. I shot 18 inch barrels but never a 12.5 inch 308 sbr. Also with yours did you find that running it suppressed helped or had a negative effect on it. It's kind of a why care rifle. what were some of the things that you ran into when doing your build.
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T-Rex
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by T-Rex »

I agree with CoW that getting hands on is always a good idea. You're going to drop a lot of coin, and wait time for the stamp, for this rifle.
With that said, I don't see how it wouldn't be a good rifle.
While I've never handled an SBR AR10, I have fired many, many AK47, HK91, FAL, etc, etc, type sbrs w/o issue. I love the FAL, although it was a DSArms and so was HEAVY.
I could see weight being a factor, since the AR10 should be heaviest platform, when comparing to stamped receivers.
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Michael Black 47
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by Michael Black 47 »

T-Rex wrote:I agree with CoW that getting hands on is always a good idea. You're going to drop a lot of coin, and wait time for the stamp, for this rifle.
With that said, I don't see how it wouldn't be a good rifle.
While I've never handled an SBR AR10, I have fired many, many AK47, HK91, FAL, etc, etc, type sbrs w/o issue. I love the FAL, although it was a DSArms and so was HEAVY.
I could see weight being a factor, since the AR10 should be heaviest platform, when comparing to stamped receivers.
You do have a point there when it comes to the weight. But for me that's not too much of concern at this point. I do have a pap m92 SBR currently and I really like it. I was considered doing this just because I don't feel like dealing with any more extra steps in the NFA for the foreseeable future. My plan was to do a ar-10 with a 20 inch barrel for precision shooting at a distance. But I can always do that later on.

I think the ideas that I want to have something that is unique not common and a little bit loud. Also I can do it at aero precision price point which is amazing. If you don't mind could you go in depth with the FAL SBR that you fired.
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CanOfWhooppass
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by CanOfWhooppass »

I haven't built an AR-10 SBR, but shot two different ones owned by others. My personal opinion is that you give up more than you gain. I worked in a gun shop and built at least 50 black rifles for them including some AR-10's and tested everything I built. Some combinations work well, some less so.

When you shorten the length of a gas system it makes the recoil sharper, a 308 SBR will feel like it kicks harder than a full size even if you can keep the muzzle down with a good comp. I haven't shot a 308 SBR with a suppressor on it, but it will probably be worse than a good comp, but better than flash hider. An adjustable gas block will help a lot with recoil and control.

The 308 out of a short barel isn't a very impressive cartridge. If you look at the AR-15 in 6.5G or 6.8 SBR it has good power and range. I like the 6.5G, Rainer has a 12.5" barrel and Wolf has cheap ammo. Any AR-15 will weigh less, balance better, follow up shot faster, suppress better, hold more shells, etc.

I'm not trying to talk you out a fun toy, it would be that. But a SBR is great for speed. At least in my mind, the AR-10 SBR is the carbine equivalent of a .357 snub nose. Huge fun, but dont take it to a match.
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Michael Black 47
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by Michael Black 47 »

CanOfWhooppass wrote:I haven't built an AR-10 SBR, but shot two different ones owned by others. My personal opinion is that you give up more than you gain. I worked in a gun shop and built at least 50 black rifles for them including some AR-10's and tested everything I built. Some combinations work well, some less so.

When you shorten the length of a gas system it makes the recoil sharper, a 308 SBR will feel like it kicks harder than a full size even if you can keep the muzzle down with a good comp. I haven't shot a 308 SBR with a suppressor on it, but it will probably be worse than a good comp, but better than flash hider. An adjustable gas block will help a lot with recoil and control.

The 308 out of a short barel isn't a very impressive cartridge. If you look at the AR-15 in 6.5G or 6.8 SBR it has good power and range. I like the 6.5G, Rainer has a 12.5" barrel and Wolf has cheap ammo. Any AR-15 will weigh less, balance better, follow up shot faster, suppress better, hold more shells, etc.

I'm not trying to talk you out a fun toy, it would be that. But a SBR is great for speed. At least in my mind, the AR-10 SBR is the carbine equivalent of a .357 snub nose. Huge fun, but dont take it to a match.
Do not worry About the fun part. I'm still waiting for the lower receiver to come into the shop. But you gave me something to think about though, on deciding to build a mini hand cannon or a precision semi auto. It makes a lot of sense from what you explained and from the examples you draw from. Is the return on the amount of time and labor to put into it worth it.

So far I think that from what I heard and many other stories like it in regards to a ar10 sbr. I might just consider going with the longer barrel for precision shooting or hitting a man size target at various ranges and not caring about if I can clip the wings off of a fly. For the firework show I'll leave that to my m92 SBR. I think I go the route of more precision and for a compliment to my AK SBR I'll take the ar SBR and finish that out.
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CanOfWhooppass
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by CanOfWhooppass »

Michael Black 47 wrote: I think the ideas that I want to have something that is unique not common and a little bit loud. Also I can do it at aero precision price point which is amazing. If you don't mind could you go in depth with the FAL SBR that you fired.
Sounds like you will have a fun gun. If you go to the Leesburg NFA Review shoot look me up. I'll let you try some of my builds.
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mk23
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by mk23 »

I have shot several AR10 SBRs over the years, and they all seemed heavy with a sharp recoil impulse.

My Scar 17 SBR on the other hand is completely different. Side by side with my 16, it's only about 3/4 pound heavier, and recoils only a bit more. Very easy to keep on target and great to shoot suppressed (GB has a suppressor setting). Actually my little Arsenal 7.62 Krink feels like it recoils more than the 17...
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Michael Black 47
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by Michael Black 47 »

Thanks for the info I really appreciate it but I have put my mind to it and I'm going to do the precision build instead. I will still make my ar SBR but consider the 308 SBR for the very later future.
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by ncorry »

I'm waiting on Mega to start shipping their medium-sized frame Ar in 308. Complete rifle with a 16" barrel chambered in 308 that is 7.2 pounds. I'd like to get one of those turned into a 12" SBR.
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by eastern_hunter »

I SBR'd a 12.5" POF-USA P308 pistol.

I also shoot large caliber bolt and double rifles ( .416 Rigby, .458 Acc-Rel, and .470 NE) so am probably not terribly recoil sensitive. I do not find the recoil of the 308 SBR objectionable. Also have a 12.5" 6.8 AR and the 308 is different ... louder for sure, and a bit more abrupt. Suppressors help a LOT with both caliber SBRs!

Have been really surprised by the accuracy of the 5R barrel in the P308 ... with a big scope (3-9 or larger) I get 1 MOA or better groups. One think I have noted is the sound the impact on AR500 steel targets at 100 yards. The 308 REALLY smacks them with M80 149 gr ball. The 308 definitely delivers more at impact than the 6.8.

Will be most interested in the performance of the 130 gr Federal MK319 MOD 0 SOST projectiles in the 308 SBR.
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Michael Black 47
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by Michael Black 47 »

Well I know this is going to piss a lot of people off, I just can't resist it. if you wondering why now link below. But I'm going to take the strip lower from aero precision and SBR it. I know a lot of people here have protested the idea and others have praised it. I decided this because I wanted to take my 20 inch version over state lines and not have to fill out paperwork. The other would stay at home and a nice safe place. Both of them will be ran with a spec war 7.62. So that will contain the muzzle blast and some sound reduction to the shooters here.


https://www.instagram.com/p/2R2GoWRWOW/ ... fafanatics

https://www.instagram.com/p/0A3lQyRWG2/ ... fafanatics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkoKTrQlak0

This is how I want to fell afterwards.

https://youtu.be/TcmWvqqGrPg?t=27s
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CanOfWhooppass
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by CanOfWhooppass »

I'm glad your not getting talked out of this, because it sounds like something you really want. My experience was shared in the hopes you would understand the likely outcome. I've fallen victim to my own unralistic expectations before, and it can suck. That "experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted" thing!

Just because I wouldn't build one for 3-gun races dosnt mean I wouldn't approach you if I saw it on the range to check it out.

I strongly sugest an adjustable gas block on this build and muzzle brake not flash hider to help protect your blast baffle.
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Michael Black 47
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by Michael Black 47 »

CanOfWhooppass wrote:I'm glad your not getting talked out of this, because it sounds like something you really want. My experience was shared in the hopes you would understand the likely outcome. I've fallen victim to my own unralistic expectations before, and it can suck. That "experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted" thing!

Just because I wouldn't build one for 3-gun races dosnt mean I wouldn't approach you if I saw it on the range to check it out.

I strongly sugest an adjustable gas block on this build and muzzle brake not flash hider to help protect your blast baffle.
Thank you for the wealth of information that you have giving out over this whole form. Looking at it in the long run is my toy and I get to do with it as I please. I do still want to have a long range version on the side after it. But it will complete my little collection of SBRs.

Adjustable gas block and the muzzle brake is definitely noted. I already have a spec war muzzle brake in mind and I'm trying to decide on what is the best adjustable gas block to use for this caliber. As they say they all may be named the same but doesn't mean the quality. Just in case when I decide to go all 50 shades of grey on this rifle, I want to put out every time , no warm ups no break ins just street fireball of hate coming out of it.

Lastly thank you to everyone who had experience with their own builds and the amount of fun they had as well was great to hear. If she would like to buy all means chip right in and give me a little more parts detailed and what she used or what you have seen failed and didn't perform as advertised.
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by eastern_hunter »

7.62 Specwar does a heck of a job on the 12.5" 308 AR! You will be pleased with it mounted ... and impressed by the flash and bang when it is not ;-) 308 Shorties really are spectacular!
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Michael Black 47
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by Michael Black 47 »

eastern_hunter wrote:7.62 Specwar does a heck of a job on the 12.5" 308 AR! You will be pleased with it mounted ... and impressed by the flash and bang when it is not ;-) 308 Shorties really are spectacular!
I love my spec war and I get the evil eye from other suppressor owns. 8) Its not the prettiest and its looks simple but that what i got it for. had a kid and his grandpa eye go wide open when i suppressed my ar and then the mosin. made it stupid quiet. I wish i had the time to get more cans but really you own need one.

My question is if the spec war is full auto rated and it can run on the sbr. Have you notice any problems with the blast baffles at all or the mount.
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by ncorry »

I've been following a guy's thread over at the 6.8 forum. He is a building a full sized AR10 with a 16" barrel. That he has spec'ed to weigh in at 4.5 pounds. 16" and under 5 lbs with a real receiver (not polymer) and a CF handguard. Even with a normal 12 ounce handguard, it'd be under 5.5 lbs. I figure you could knock 3 or 4 ounces from that with a shorter 12 or 12.5" barrel.

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.p ... 4-5-pounds
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Michael Black 47
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by Michael Black 47 »

Well so far so good. It's been a lovely two months of collecting the parts and I've so far acquired the complete upper without the barrel. I've also have the BCG and the buffer tube with assembly. Is been quite a chore getting parts together because of the whole panic buying recently.

Even with that said it's been pretty good getting the stuff and the quality from Aero precision is always top notch. I don't know if anyone here is even interest enough as he pictures but I think showing the completed product would be better for some instead of piece by piece. I think people you get tired of that.

Let me know what you think anything else you want to put into the comments. I also I can't decide whether or not to put a red dot on it or just have it with iron sights. I thought of by a combination of both buds for NFA item I thought it will be fine with either or.
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Michael Black 47
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Re: 308 aero preision SBR

Post by Michael Black 47 »

UPDATE 3/24/2016

Well there's good news. I got the uppeR receiver with the M lock. It married nicely with the ball carrier for the 308. Also in the mail I receive the buffer to, spring, and buffer. I'm still waiting on the lower receiver to come in. And I think am going to use most of their parts for it as well, except I can't decide on whether or not to use a aftermarket trigger to make the whole thing complete.

Anyone else have input on what kind of trigger they use for their NFA projects?

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