Rem 870 sbs barrel legallity

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Mr. Whisper
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Rem 870 sbs barrel legallity

Post by Mr. Whisper » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:02 pm

I plan to register a remington 870 that i own as a SBS soon. At what time can I legally acquire a short barrel? I know that i can't install the short barrel untill the form 1 is approved, but can i buy a 18" barrel, then have it cut down to 12.5" or 14", and then just not install it untill the form is approved? Or do i have to wait until the form 1 is approved before getting a short barrel?

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fishman
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Re: Rem 870 sbs barrel legallity

Post by fishman » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:11 pm

Mr. Whisper wrote:I plan to register a remington 870 that i own as a SBS soon. At what time can I legally acquire a short barrel? I know that i can't install the short barrel untill the form 1 is approved, but can i buy a 18" barrel, then have it cut down to 12.5" or 14", and then just not install it untill the form is approved? Or do i have to wait until the form 1 is approved before getting a short barrel?
It's kinda a gray area. Part of the law states, and I'm paraphrasing, that you can't have all the necessary parts to make an sbr or sbs near each other. However, anyone that owns a rifle AR and a pistol AR has all the necessary parts to make an sbr in 30 seconds. Likewise, if you own an AOW pistol 870 and a regular 870 you legally have all the components to make an sbs. I have a rifle encore and my dad has a pistol encore, they sit next to each other in his safe, does that make us felons since we could create an sbr in a matter of one minute?

If you want to be cautious, wait. Especially considering that your intent is to marry the barrel to the receiver. But if you do decide to buy one early anyway, I'd bet the atf won't bust down your door
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Mr. Whisper
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Re: Rem 870 sbs barrel legallity

Post by Mr. Whisper » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:26 pm

so if I keep the barrel away from the gun, like in a family member's safe that I don't have the combo to, then it would technically be fine, right

Tony M.
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Re: Rem 870 sbs barrel legallity

Post by Tony M. » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:55 pm

Mr. Whisper wrote:so if I keep the barrel away from the gun, like in a family member's safe that I don't have the combo to, then it would technically be fine, right
If you plan to have the barrel cut before the F1 is approved, this is the way to do it.

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wildfowler
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Re: Rem 870 sbs barrel legallity

Post by wildfowler » Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:51 pm

I probably wouldn't keep it there if they have a 870 the short barrel will work on? That's just me.
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LawBob
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Re: Rem 870 sbs barrel legallity

Post by LawBob » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:27 pm

Tony M. wrote:
Mr. Whisper wrote:so if I keep the barrel away from the gun, like in a family member's safe that I don't have the combo to, then it would technically be fine, right
If you plan to have the barrel cut before the F1 is approved, this is the way to do it.
Provided they don't own an 870

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Re: Rem 870 sbs barrel legallity

Post by crazyelece » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:47 pm

LawBob wrote:
Tony M. wrote:
Mr. Whisper wrote:so if I keep the barrel away from the gun, like in a family member's safe that I don't have the combo to, then it would technically be fine, right
If you plan to have the barrel cut before the F1 is approved, this is the way to do it.
Provided they don't own an 870
This is correct

The case law behind constructive possession (the charge that deals with having the pieces to make an illegal weapon without approval) basically states, that if you possess the parts and they have no other legal use, then you are in possession even if you haven't assembled.

So in the case of having a rifle and a pistol whos parts could be used to make a SBR, you are ok because there is a legal use for all those parts.

A pistol can be made to a rifle and back to a pistol, so even if you owned a pistol and a stock, as long as you also owned a >16" barrel it would still be ok.

If the only use for a short 870 barrel is a title 1 870, you have a problem.

If you have a place to store it where there is no other 870 present, you could do that. If not, it's best to wait until the form comes back. If you have a smith cut it down, you could always ask them if they would mind holding onto it until your form clears, but they might charge to do so.

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Re: Rem 870 sbs barrel legallity

Post by JoeLiberty » Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:50 am

Can you do it? Probably, yeah. Should you? Well... Different question.

Only 2 nfa-based constuctive possession events that I am aware of. The Thompson Center case that went all the way to SCOTUS, and the arrest of Jesus Amador in FL. (if anyone knows of more please post)

The T/C case had SCOTUS rule that b/c one could assemble a pistol or rifle (both legal) from their kits, you could not be charged with possession of an SBR. This is also taken to protect having an AR-pistol and AR-rifle in the same place. But, if you had a pile of parts that could ONLY be assembled as an SBR, then you do have an SBR. To my knowledge this has never been tested.

Jesus Amador was arrested in FL b/c he had a pistol and a forward grip (designed to turn it into an AOW) and even had a case with foam cut-outs that would fit the assembly. He was released, all charges dropped and had his gun returned to him.

IANAL, but my guess is since he had a complete pistol, that was a legal way to assemble his pile of parts and no charges could be brought. If you took off your 870 barrel and chopped it and had them sitting next to each other, there would be no way to legally assemble that pile of parts. BUT, if you bought a second barrel short, or chopped a second barrel, (and never put it on, Obvs) you SHOULD be OK. Maybe. Depending on which way the wind was blowing and whether or not your judge had gotten laid recently.
That way you have a legal shotgun AND some other parts, which COULD be used to make an SBS. Based on the cases I've seen, that's not enough to get a conviction. (It might be enough to get you taken to jail and hit with life-changing legal fees though).
As others have said, if you store the short barrel elsewhere, that would certainly look better.
Best of luck.

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