Change of Address While Form 4 Pending

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FormerNavy
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Change of Address While Form 4 Pending

Post by FormerNavy » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:04 am

I have a Form 4 pending for a suppressor... it will (hopefully) be approved around the December timeframe, but I am moving in October. I'm not sure what the implications are here... my concern is that when it's finally approved, it will now have an old address on the Form 4 and the dealer will have issues with the addresses not matching with what my "current address" will be on the 4473. This move is within the same state, and even the same city.

Anyone deal with anything like this, or have any comments/suggestions?

Also, I assume I have to notify ATF of the address change for all my existing NFA toys??

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Michael Black 47
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Re: Change of Address While Form 4 Pending

Post by Michael Black 47 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:43 am

FormerNavy wrote:I have a Form 4 pending for a suppressor... it will (hopefully) be approved around the December timeframe, but I am moving in October. I'm not sure what the implications are here... my concern is that when it's finally approved, it will now have an old address on the Form 4 and the dealer will have issues with the addresses not matching with what my "current address" will be on the 4473. This move is within the same state, and even the same city.

Anyone deal with anything like this, or have any comments/suggestions?

Also, I assume I have to notify ATF of the address change for all my existing NFA toys??

I believe you will have to notify the ATF that you are moving. As long as you do it in a timely manner then I don't see any problem that may cause the SOT to hold on to your suppressor. I would keep the ID until you get the form 4. If you are doing this make sure you have the new id for where you are moving too and a the old one with some proof of resident, if it comes to that.

People move for many reason, for work, family or emergencies.

FormerNavy
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Re: Change of Address While Form 4 Pending

Post by FormerNavy » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:33 am

Michael Black 47 wrote:
FormerNavy wrote:I have a Form 4 pending for a suppressor... it will (hopefully) be approved around the December timeframe, but I am moving in October. I'm not sure what the implications are here... my concern is that when it's finally approved, it will now have an old address on the Form 4 and the dealer will have issues with the addresses not matching with what my "current address" will be on the 4473. This move is within the same state, and even the same city.

Anyone deal with anything like this, or have any comments/suggestions?

Also, I assume I have to notify ATF of the address change for all my existing NFA toys??

I believe you will have to notify the ATF that you are moving. As long as you do it in a timely manner then I don't see any problem that may cause the SOT to hold on to your suppressor. I would keep the ID until you get the form 4. If you are doing this make sure you have the new id for where you are moving too and a the old one with some proof of resident, if it comes to that.

People move for many reason, for work, family or emergencies.
In my state, they make you turn in your old ID when you get a new one. One thought that did cross my mind was doing the Form 5530.20 for the change of address once the Form 4 is approved, and waiting to get my copy of that back before picking up the suppressor. Then I should be able to use the new address without issue.

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Re: Change of Address While Form 4 Pending

Post by crazyelece » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:20 pm

If you are moving within the same state you don't need to notify BATFE for anything.

Only interstate moves require a .20

As for the form 4, call the dealer and ask if it will be a problem if your address changes.

You are already approved by BATFE, you are still in the same state (let alone the same city), Unless you cross some magical line in a local ordinance that would not allow possession I don't see an issue

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Re: Change of Address While Form 4 Pending

Post by FormerNavy » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:11 pm

crazyelece wrote:If you are moving within the same state you don't need to notify BATFE for anything.

Only interstate moves require a .20

As for the form 4, call the dealer and ask if it will be a problem if your address changes.

You are already approved by BATFE, you are still in the same state (let alone the same city), Unless you cross some magical line in a local ordinance that would not allow possession I don't see an issue
I know I don't have to notify ATF... I am worried what the dealer will do when the Form 4 will have one address, but my license and the 4473 I have to fill out will have another address. I will contact the dealer and see if it will be an issue.

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Re: Change of Address While Form 4 Pending

Post by SigM4 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:39 pm

Is this on a trust? I ask because if so the address on the 4473 doesn't necessarily have to be the same as the address for the Trust. Since you can't run a 4473 on a legal entity (Trust) they run it on whoever picks up the can. If you have several people on the trust it might be any number of different addresses depending on who picks up the can. All the 4473 says is that the individual picking up the suppressor has passed a background check. Now realizing this is all hypothetical as you're dealer may not like the idea of someone other than the person who ordered/paid for the can picking it up.
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Re: Change of Address While Form 4 Pending

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:16 am

FormerNavy wrote: In my state, they make you turn in your old ID when you get a new one. One thought that did cross my mind was doing the Form 5530.20 for the change of address once the Form 4 is approved, and waiting to get my copy of that back before picking up the suppressor. Then I should be able to use the new address without issue.
You can't do a 5320.20 for an item that you do not own.

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Re: Change of Address While Form 4 Pending

Post by FormerNavy » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:59 am

Bendersquint wrote:
FormerNavy wrote: In my state, they make you turn in your old ID when you get a new one. One thought that did cross my mind was doing the Form 5530.20 for the change of address once the Form 4 is approved, and waiting to get my copy of that back before picking up the suppressor. Then I should be able to use the new address without issue.
You can't do a 5320.20 for an item that you do not own.
I've emailed the dealer to find out if he will have a problem. But I would think that once the Form 4 is approved, the trust owns the item... just because I haven't taken delivery of it doesn't mean the trust doesn't own it - I've paid for it, the Form 4 is approved, the item is in the registry under the trust's name. ATF doesn't know when I've picked it up. Granted a background check will have to be done on whichever member of the trust picks it up, but that is for possession not ownership in my mind....

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Re: Change of Address While Form 4 Pending

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:21 am

FormerNavy wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
FormerNavy wrote: In my state, they make you turn in your old ID when you get a new one. One thought that did cross my mind was doing the Form 5530.20 for the change of address once the Form 4 is approved, and waiting to get my copy of that back before picking up the suppressor. Then I should be able to use the new address without issue.
You can't do a 5320.20 for an item that you do not own.
I've emailed the dealer to find out if he will have a problem. But I would think that once the Form 4 is approved, the trust owns the item... just because I haven't taken delivery of it doesn't mean the trust doesn't own it - I've paid for it, the Form 4 is approved, the item is in the registry under the trust's name. ATF doesn't know when I've picked it up. Granted a background check will have to be done on whichever member of the trust picks it up, but that is for possession not ownership in my mind....
Been down this road MANY MANY times.

You don't LEGALLY own the item until the 4473 is completed. Until that 4473 has been completed the trust only has financial interest in it and ZERO ownership.

Until the 4473 is filed a Form4 is basically the permission slip for the SOT to conduct the 4473 transfer.

This is no different than ordering a rifle from Buds and having it shipped to your dealer, you have a financial interest in it until the 4473 is filed, then and only then do you own it. Up to that point the dealer can decide to keep it and NOTHING can be done about it if he compensates you the purchase price. Now that would be a dick move but thats not what we are talking about....we are talking LEGALITY.

Another fact I am sure you didn't know is even with an approved form until you transfer it via 4473 the form can be cancelled by the transferring dealer.

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Re: Change of Address While Form 4 Pending

Post by FormerNavy » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:32 am

Bendersquint wrote: Been down this road MANY MANY times.

You don't LEGALLY own the item until the 4473 is completed. Until that 4473 has been completed the trust only has financial interest in it and ZERO ownership.

Until the 4473 is filed a Form4 is basically the permission slip for the SOT to conduct the 4473 transfer.

This is no different than ordering a rifle from Buds and having it shipped to your dealer, you have a financial interest in it until the 4473 is filed, then and only then do you own it. Up to that point the dealer can decide to keep it and NOTHING can be done about it if he compensates you the purchase price. Now that would be a dick move but thats not what we are talking about....we are talking LEGALITY.

Another fact I am sure you didn't know is even with an approved form until you transfer it via 4473 the form can be cancelled by the transferring dealer.
So then if the dealer objects to the addresses being different, and I can't do a .20 then what is the course of action?

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Re: Change of Address While Form 4 Pending

Post by Bendersquint » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:10 am

FormerNavy wrote:
Bendersquint wrote: Been down this road MANY MANY times.

You don't LEGALLY own the item until the 4473 is completed. Until that 4473 has been completed the trust only has financial interest in it and ZERO ownership.

Until the 4473 is filed a Form4 is basically the permission slip for the SOT to conduct the 4473 transfer.

This is no different than ordering a rifle from Buds and having it shipped to your dealer, you have a financial interest in it until the 4473 is filed, then and only then do you own it. Up to that point the dealer can decide to keep it and NOTHING can be done about it if he compensates you the purchase price. Now that would be a dick move but thats not what we are talking about....we are talking LEGALITY.

Another fact I am sure you didn't know is even with an approved form until you transfer it via 4473 the form can be cancelled by the transferring dealer.
So then if the dealer objects to the addresses being different, and I can't do a .20 then what is the course of action?
The dealer probably won't object because 95% of the dealers don't know the regs.

Incorrect address is a potential gig in an ATF audit, if they see it.

The course of action would be the dealer calling his IOI for recommendations.

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