SBR Transfer advice

[quest561]

I am thinking about buying an sbr locally from another guy. What is the safe and correct way to go about this? He wants me to pay him all the money up front, have his dealer hold it until my paperwork comes back approved.

What is normal?

[hardcase]

That would be one way,or you could get yours to do the same thing till the tax stamp cleared.

[AlabamaPaul]

Dealer can't "hold" it unless it is taken in for gunsmithing or is transferred to them on a Form 4, which isn't really practicle.

[crazyelece]

A couple ways to do it. After you pay for the item,

1) he keeps it until paperwork clears, you go pick it up

2) he strips it down to the base reciever, you take possession of everything but the receiver immediately, he keeps the receiver until the paperwork clears, you go pick it up

3) he gives it to you in a locked container that he keeps the keys for, he mails you the key when the paperwork clears

4) get a safe deposit box that you both have to be present to open, leave item until paperwork clears

[JoeLiberty]

Theoretically, couldn't the seller remove it from the scope of the NFA by removing the barrel or stock? Then he sells you a title 1 firearm. If I was the seller, that's the way I'd want to do it. Then there's no worries about waiting for forms or the possibility of the buyer getting denied and wanting money back yada yada. The buyer could then form 1 at his leisure.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=137302

[O2HeN2]

Theoretically, couldn't the seller remove it from the scope of the NFA by removing the barrel or stock? Then he sells you a title 1 firearm.

So instead of the form 4, you'd do a form 1...

The problem I see (other than what you're going to do with the "illegal" barrel while waiting for the form 1 to clear) is that if you're going to make another SBR from something that was removed from the registry, you'd have to engrave it... again. But this time with your info.

O2

[JoeLiberty]

Theoretically, couldn't the seller remove it from the scope of the NFA by removing the barrel or stock? Then he sells you a title 1 firearm.

So instead of the form 4, you'd do a form 1...

The problem I see (other than what you're going to do with the "illegal" barrel while waiting for the form 1 to clear) is that if you're going to make another SBR from something that was removed from the registry, you'd have to engrave it... again. But this time with your info.

O2

The barrel isn't illegal. I can buy a pistol barrel from whoever, nbd. Again theoretically, I think, and IANAL, but you should be able to buy all the parts from the guy right away. He sells you a rifle lower, and a bucket of parts with the barrel and everything in it. Then yes you do the form 1. (I would probably take some steps to ensure that you are not seen with, say, all the parts and a case with cutouts for the assembled SBR a'la Jesus Amador, but other than that I see no reason you couldn't)
The part about engraving it again is true though. Potentially ugly but wouldn't bother me.

[hardcase]

How about this way:

A local gun dealer sells Anderson stripped lowers for $65.00. There are probably gun dealers in your area that sell lowers. Just your run-of-the-mill gunshops can sell stripped lowers. I've even bought them online on sale and had them sent to a local licensed gun dealer, usually for a $25.00 or so transfer fee to do an ATF Form 4473, I think is the Form number.

Buy one and Form 1 it.

When you get you Form 1 back, have it engraved. There is a guy here in NC that will do it for $30.00-$45.00 all legal http://tarheelstatefirearms.com/store/i ... uct_id=232 . Tell the seller to keep his lower and destroy it, notifying ATF. Take the parts and build your SBR. I would not give the seller any money unless you trust him until I got my Form 1 back. If the deal fell through, buy the parts and build your own. I built my first one a couple years ago and it is a very satisfying experience. There are several books and websites that make it easy to build.

[fishman]

How about this way:

A local gun dealer sells Anderson stripped lowers for $65.00. There are probably gun dealers in your area that sell lowers. Just your run-of-the-mill gunshops can sell stripped lowers. I've even bought them online on sale and had them sent to a local licensed gun dealer, usually for a $25.00 or so transfer fee to do an ATF Form 4473, I think is the Form number.

Buy one and Form 1 it.

When you get you Form 1 back, have it engraved. There is a guy here in NC that will do it for $30.00-$45.00 all legal http://tarheelstatefirearms.com/store/i ... uct_id=232 . Tell the seller to keep his lower and destroy it, notifying ATF. Take the parts and build your SBR. I would not give the seller any money unless you trust him until I got my Form 1 back. If the deal fell through, buy the parts and build your own. I built my first one a couple years ago and it is a very satisfying experience. There are several books and websites that make it easy to build.

You're assuming the SBR is an AR-15. It very likely isn't. Also, the lower might be very valuable, destroying it and building on an Anderson lower might take away a lot of the SBRs value.

[John A.]

2) he strips it down to the base reciever, you take possession of everything but the receiver immediately, he keeps the receiver until the paperwork clears, you go pick it up

This is the most practical.

Legally, he can't transfer the receiver (which is legally and technically the gun) until after your form 4 comes back approved. Current lead times are about 8 months at NFA world.

So, he would have to maintain ownership until you are approved. Even after you paid.

I know that seems ass-backwards, but that's how the NFA is set up. And why it needs to be brought up to this century with NICS background checks.

[John A.]

Dealer can't "hold" it unless it is taken in for gunsmithing or is transferred to them on a Form 4, which isn't really practicle.

And can add another $200 transfer tax if the dealer isn't an SOT transferring on a form 3 and would also add wait time while transferring from the guy to the dealer, and then to you. Which is totally un-necessary if you can do a local face to face transfer after the paperwork comes back approved, it's legally your gun at that point.

[hardcase]

Dealer can't "hold" it unless it is taken in for gunsmithing or is transferred to them on a Form 4, which isn't really practicle.

And can add another $200 transfer tax if the dealer isn't an SOT transferring on a form 3 and would also add wait time while transferring from the guy to the dealer, and then to you. Which is totally un-necessary if you can do a local face to face transfer after the paperwork comes back approved, it's legally your gun at that point.

This sounds like the seller would be illegally in possession of a SBR. The new owner would have the stamp and the seller would be in possession of the SBR, at least for a short period of time unless they are both on a Trust.

[doubloon]

...
This sounds like the seller would be illegally in possession of a SBR. The new owner would have the stamp and the seller would be in possession of the SBR, at least for a short period of time unless they are both on a Trust.

The normal process is for the seller to retain possession of the NFA until the buyer is approved.

The ATF understands the seller will have possession for a short time after approval.

[WasDustyJacket]

The normal process is for the seller to retain possession of the NFA until the buyer is approved.

The ATF understands the seller will have possession for a short time after approval.

Exactly.

And, OP, the reason for paying all up front is, once the paperwork is done, it is now yours regardless of whether it is fully paid for.
The seller is required to turn it over as soon as practical.

[crazyelece]

The normal process is for the seller to retain possession of the NFA until the buyer is approved.

The ATF understands the seller will have possession for a short time after approval.

Exactly.

And, OP, the reason for paying all up front is, once the paperwork is done, it is now yours regardless of whether it is fully paid for.
The seller is required to turn it over as soon as practical.

No, no, no. The seller (transferor) is the valid owner and possessor until (s)he hands over the weapon to the buyer (transferee) with an approved form.

The seller has the right to cancel the transfer up and to the time of actual transfer, even after the form is approved it can still be canceled.

This doesn't mean that the seller can legally keep the funds of the sale if the transfer is canceled, but the seller has all the control up and to the point (s)he hands the weapon over.

[hbk80rice]

This is fairly normal. Another thing you can do is take possession of all of the parts except the receiver. People do this to make sure that the person selling you the SBR doesn't shoot the crap out of it before you take possession of it. Yes they could go by other parts and uppers but that's the best you can do in terms of allowing him to keep the lower receiver, because you cannot take possession of the lower receiver until the stamp is back. If you're worried about him shooting it up and possibly wearing out the receiver just allow a dealer to hold it for you. But yes it's pretty standard procedure when doing a SBR transfer from person to person within the same state. The same thing goes with buying a silencer from an individual in the same state and doing a transfer this way.