Out of state travel with SBR

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mr fixit
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Out of state travel with SBR

Post by mr fixit » Wed May 03, 2017 11:00 am

I want to make sure I understand the legalities.
Am I correct that my factory Colt 6920, which I have registered as an SBR on a Form 1, can not be taken out of state while in SBR configuration without filing the appropriate forms for each state I travel to? BUT, if I take the short barrel off and reinstall the 16" barrel there is no problem transporting without paperwork?

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by AlabamaPaul » Wed May 03, 2017 3:20 pm

Correct.

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by hardcase » Wed May 03, 2017 7:53 pm

Can a short barrel be in the trunk, etc., just not on the lower, assuming a person has an ATF tax stamp? As an alternative, put a Sig brace or pistol buffer tube on the short barrel lower and transport it in the trunk that way with the rifle stock in another bag?

There was a magazine article I read a few years ago about the author traveling to a gun range in another state with a couple full autos. He was traveling from Montana to Arizona I believe and had them in the trunk. He just had to avoid the liberal (now call progressive) states like California.

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by cdakers » Thu May 04, 2017 12:57 am

The short barrel on a pistol lower and a long barrel on the SBR lower. Switch uppers at your destination. Seems fairly legit. I guess it would depend on the legalities in the ultimate destination location.

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by thecameraman79 » Thu May 04, 2017 9:39 am

Incorrect. They made a "safe passage provision" to the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) that allows you to travel THROUGH a state that doesn't allow such weapons as long as the item you are transporting is legal in the state it originates and the state you are traveling to and it is transported in a manor which conforms to the state laws you are traveling through. Some of which make you have it in a locked box in the trunk that can't be accessed, etc etc.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A

http://www.gunlaw.com/gun-law-articles/ ... earms.html

It is impossible to make someone drive around some states to get to where you need to go and be legal if they didn't create this provision. I live in PA and work in NJ and know some NJ police officers and they swear you can't do it but even the NJ State police website clearly states you can travel THROUGH the state...

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-firearm.shtml

hardcase wrote:Can a short barrel be in the trunk, etc., just not on the lower, assuming a person has an ATF tax stamp? As an alternative, put a Sig brace or pistol buffer tube on the short barrel lower and transport it in the trunk that way with the rifle stock in another bag?

There was a magazine article I read a few years ago about the author traveling to a gun range in another state with a couple full autos. He was traveling from Montana to Arizona I believe and had them in the trunk. He just had to avoid the liberal (now call progressive) states like California.

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by Michael Black 47 » Fri May 05, 2017 10:50 pm

Everything in this form is correct. I have asked the same question to the ATF and more specifically the NFA branch. It took them a few days to get back to me, but they confirmed the exact information that has been explained here. As long as it is not a title I firearm configuration. It is okay to transport across state lines.

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by John A. » Sat May 06, 2017 9:18 pm

And just for the sake of asking, what if you stop in a state while traveling through to get gas and to take a whiz?

Some thug steals your car (with gun in it).

Obviously you will report it stolen.

The serial number is still registered as an SBR/NFA device correct? Regardless of what length barrel you had.

So, how can this pass muster?
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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by fishman » Sat May 06, 2017 11:50 pm

John A. wrote:And just for the sake of asking, what if you stop in a state while traveling through to get gas and to take a whiz?

Some thug steals your car (with gun in it).

Obviously you will report it stolen.

The serial number is still registered as an SBR/NFA device correct? Regardless of what length barrel you had.

So, how can this pass muster?
Personally, I'd notify the ATF that the gun has been modified and is no longer an SBR and ask them to remove it from the registry. Then I'd report the rifle stolen. That way you're not responsible for an NFA weapon falling into criminal hands.
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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by John A. » Sun May 07, 2017 12:58 am

And then you'd lose out your registration tax, and you'd still be SOL.
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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by fishman » Sun May 07, 2017 7:46 pm

John A. wrote:And then you'd lose out your registration tax, and you'd still be SOL.
As opposed to what alternative?
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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by John A. » Sun May 07, 2017 10:37 pm

As opposed to maybe just taking the 2 minutes to fill out the out of state travel form and mailing or faxing it to them?

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/doc ... 0/download

It always works out for the best when you just do what you're supposed to do.

The serial number is what's registered as an SBR. Not what barrel length is on the gun.

Even if something happened to the gun while it was wearing a 16 inch barrel, guess what?

A stolen SBR receiver would still be floating around out there somewhere.

Do you really want to answer the knock on the door that the police found your sbr at a murder/crime scene? School shooting?

Yeah, I'll err on the side of caution and fill out the proper forms instead of trying to skirt the reg's. Butt covered.
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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by crazyelece » Wed May 10, 2017 3:54 pm

thecameraman79 wrote:Incorrect. They made a "safe passage provision" to the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) that allows you to travel THROUGH a state that doesn't allow such weapons as long as the item you are transporting is legal in the state it originates and the state you are traveling to and it is transported in a manor which conforms to the state laws you are traveling through. Some of which make you have it in a locked box in the trunk that can't be accessed, etc etc.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A

http://www.gunlaw.com/gun-law-articles/ ... earms.html

It is impossible to make someone drive around some states to get to where you need to go and be legal if they didn't create this provision. I live in PA and work in NJ and know some NJ police officers and they swear you can't do it but even the NJ State police website clearly states you can travel THROUGH the state...

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-firearm.shtml

hardcase wrote:Can a short barrel be in the trunk, etc., just not on the lower, assuming a person has an ATF tax stamp? As an alternative, put a Sig brace or pistol buffer tube on the short barrel lower and transport it in the trunk that way with the rifle stock in another bag?

There was a magazine article I read a few years ago about the author traveling to a gun range in another state with a couple full autos. He was traveling from Montana to Arizona I believe and had them in the trunk. He just had to avoid the liberal (now call progressive) states like California.
Just remember FOPA is a federal issue. There is NOTHING stopping a "progressive" LEO from seizing your weapon and making you fight the system to get it back. You can beat the illegal weapon charge but it will still be a burden and a hassle. Detouring around places like Chicago, is a good idea, even if you have crossed all the Ts and dotted all the Is.

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by thecameraman79 » Thu May 11, 2017 7:55 am

FOPA is a federal law affecting everyone including states. Avoiding a city is one thing, trying to get to Maine from PA is physically impossible.

http://s95.photobucket.com/user/mikecle ... p.png.html

Police are human and don't know every single law but as a firearm owner it's good to know the laws and with be able to inform and educate police. You can't be afraid to do something legal because you might run into a cop that isn't familiar with the law.
crazyelece wrote:
thecameraman79 wrote:Incorrect. They made a "safe passage provision" to the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) that allows you to travel THROUGH a state that doesn't allow such weapons as long as the item you are transporting is legal in the state it originates and the state you are traveling to and it is transported in a manor which conforms to the state laws you are traveling through. Some of which make you have it in a locked box in the trunk that can't be accessed, etc etc.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A

http://www.gunlaw.com/gun-law-articles/ ... earms.html

It is impossible to make someone drive around some states to get to where you need to go and be legal if they didn't create this provision. I live in PA and work in NJ and know some NJ police officers and they swear you can't do it but even the NJ State police website clearly states you can travel THROUGH the state...

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-firearm.shtml

hardcase wrote:Can a short barrel be in the trunk, etc., just not on the lower, assuming a person has an ATF tax stamp? As an alternative, put a Sig brace or pistol buffer tube on the short barrel lower and transport it in the trunk that way with the rifle stock in another bag?

There was a magazine article I read a few years ago about the author traveling to a gun range in another state with a couple full autos. He was traveling from Montana to Arizona I believe and had them in the trunk. He just had to avoid the liberal (now call progressive) states like California.
Just remember FOPA is a federal issue. There is NOTHING stopping a "progressive" LEO from seizing your weapon and making you fight the system to get it back. You can beat the illegal weapon charge but it will still be a burden and a hassle. Detouring around places like Chicago, is a good idea, even if you have crossed all the Ts and dotted all the Is.

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by slackercruster » Fri May 12, 2017 2:06 pm

crazyelece wrote:
thecameraman79 wrote:Incorrect. They made a "safe passage provision" to the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) that allows you to travel THROUGH a state that doesn't allow such weapons as long as the item you are transporting is legal in the state it originates and the state you are traveling to and it is transported in a manor which conforms to the state laws you are traveling through. Some of which make you have it in a locked box in the trunk that can't be accessed, etc etc.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A

http://www.gunlaw.com/gun-law-articles/ ... earms.html

It is impossible to make someone drive around some states to get to where you need to go and be legal if they didn't create this provision. I live in PA and work in NJ and know some NJ police officers and they swear you can't do it but even the NJ State police website clearly states you can travel THROUGH the state...

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-firearm.shtml

hardcase wrote:Can a short barrel be in the trunk, etc., just not on the lower, assuming a person has an ATF tax stamp? As an alternative, put a Sig brace or pistol buffer tube on the short barrel lower and transport it in the trunk that way with the rifle stock in another bag?

There was a magazine article I read a few years ago about the author traveling to a gun range in another state with a couple full autos. He was traveling from Montana to Arizona I believe and had them in the trunk. He just had to avoid the liberal (now call progressive) states like California.
Just remember FOPA is a federal issue. There is NOTHING stopping a "progressive" LEO from seizing your weapon and making you fight the system to get it back. You can beat the illegal weapon charge but it will still be a burden and a hassle. Detouring around places like Chicago, is a good idea, even if you have crossed all the Ts and dotted all the Is.
Good advice...might makes right unfortunatly.

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by zeke » Sun May 14, 2017 6:30 am

So I have a pistol that was stamped into a sbr. If I just take the stock off, the feds then consider it alright to transport across state lines? Then if a sbr is legal in final destination state, then just reattach stock? Am guessing I still need the notification form if I want to reattach stock in the final destination state?

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by John A. » Sun May 14, 2017 8:45 am

"So I have a pistol that was stamped into a sbr. If I just take the stock off, the feds then consider it alright to transport across state lines?"
No.

And further, a pistol may or may not be legal either. Some states have multitudes of firearms that are against their state law.

NY, CA, NJ etc.

There is no blanket yes or no answer here.

And even then, every state has their own laws of where the weapon has to be stored while being transported among other things.

This is one instance where some of the advice above about removing the stock is outright wrong.

Even without a stock or grip, the receiver itself is what is the registered SBR so removing those parts do not change what it is in the eyes of the law or the government.

The stock isn't the registered part.

The front grip isn't the registered part.

The serial numbered receiver is the gun.

Look at it in a different way.

Destructive device.

If I have a registered hand grenade that I want to take home to show crazy uncle joe on my Christmas vacation, if I take the pin out, does that change it to a paperweight because it is missing something?

Then if a sbr is legal in final destination state, then just reattach stock?
Don't see why not.
Am guessing I still need the notification form if I want to reattach stock in the final destination state?
notification form isn't what grants the owner the ability to attach the stock. That's what the F1,F4 is for. The notification form is just that. Telling ATF you're transporting, where and when.

While I think the form is stupid and an inconvenience, taking the stock off and trying to skirt reg's isn't going to do you any favors if something happens.
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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by crazyelece » Thu May 18, 2017 10:28 am

zeke wrote:So I have a pistol that was stamped into a sbr. If I just take the stock off, the feds then consider it alright to transport across state lines? Then if a sbr is legal in final destination state, then just reattach stock? Am guessing I still need the notification form if I want to reattach stock in the final destination state?
Not only do you have to configure your NFA weapon to a title 1 configuration, but you can NOT possess the parts to configure it to title 2 configuration while outside the originating state.

Also pistol to SBR to pistol is a grey area that ATF has never officially stated is ok.

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by crazyelece » Thu May 18, 2017 10:43 am

thecameraman79 wrote:FOPA is a federal law affecting everyone including states. Avoiding a city is one thing, trying to get to Maine from PA is physically impossible.

http://s95.photobucket.com/user/mikecle ... p.png.html

Police are human and don't know every single law but as a firearm owner it's good to know the laws and with be able to inform and educate police. You can't be afraid to do something legal because you might run into a cop that isn't familiar with the law.
crazyelece wrote:
thecameraman79 wrote:Incorrect. They made a "safe passage provision" to the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) that allows you to travel THROUGH a state that doesn't allow such weapons as long as the item you are transporting is legal in the state it originates and the state you are traveling to and it is transported in a manor which conforms to the state laws you are traveling through. Some of which make you have it in a locked box in the trunk that can't be accessed, etc etc.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A

http://www.gunlaw.com/gun-law-articles/ ... earms.html

It is impossible to make someone drive around some states to get to where you need to go and be legal if they didn't create this provision. I live in PA and work in NJ and know some NJ police officers and they swear you can't do it but even the NJ State police website clearly states you can travel THROUGH the state...

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-firearm.shtml

Just remember FOPA is a federal issue. There is NOTHING stopping a "progressive" LEO from seizing your weapon and making you fight the system to get it back. You can beat the illegal weapon charge but it will still be a burden and a hassle. Detouring around places like Chicago, is a good idea, even if you have crossed all the Ts and dotted all the Is.

It's not about being afraid to do something legal, it's about surrendering your weapons to LE because they have the power to take them.

Do some research, there are plenty of examples (especially around Chicago), of LEOs seizing illegal weapons legally traveling through the area supposedly protected by FOPA.

In some cases weapons are returned after lawyers get invlved (huge $$$ thrown away), but there are many cases where seized weapons never get returned and are destroyed.

Flat tires, wrecks, stopping for fuel or food, car troubles, etc.; there are many ways LEOs can interrupt a "passing through" trip.

As to your Maine to PA example, most of that trip is not through any "progressive" area. I would avoid New York City and NJ like the plague but that's me.

Worst case scenario, you can always mail the weapon to yourself or travel by air.

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by thecameraman79 » Mon May 22, 2017 8:58 am

Straight off the Chicago Firearms PDF...

https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/ ... hicago.pdf

Page 11, section "8-20-090 Interstate Transportation of Firearms"

"it shall NOT be a violation of this chapter if a person transporting a firearm OR ammunition while engaging in interstate travel is in compliance with 18 U.S.C.A 926A. (interstate transportation of firearms). There shall be a rebuttable presumption that any person within the city for more then 24 hours is not engaged in interstate travel, and is subject to the provisions of this chapter.

So it is clearly spelled out in the Chicago city ordinance.

Illegal weapon was the key words. I am an Military Police officer in the Army. In 2013 Obama made an addendum to the LEOSA law allowing MP's to be included in LEOSA which allows MP's the same rights as off duty officers in carrying 50 state legal (there are provisions of course not allowing to carry in school zones or federal buildings still, etc). I had a buddy get pulled over in NJ and he handed the officer his ID card. The cop asked why he handed it to him and he said he wanted him to know he was carrying. The officer then proceeded to pull him out of the car, take his weapon for "safety" and handcuffed him and told him he wasn't allowed to carry and that the card looked fake.

My buddy advised him to contact his supervisor and once the supervisor got there they took a few minutes and the supervisor got out of the car and apologized to my buddy. Police don't know every single law, it's impossible. I am card holder #426 and there has been less then 1,000 cards issued since they started issuing them a year ago. You can't be afraid to do something legal because someone might not know the laws. I explained the "safe travel" clause to one of my NJ police officer buddies and he swore up and down there was no such thing and that I would have to inform the police. I had to show him the NJ State police website that says the exact opposite thing to get him to realize he was completely wrong. Know your laws. You can avoid a city but just because I drive through rural NY doesn't mean I'm not going to run into a rural cop that doesn't know the laws either.

P.S. there is no way I'd ever mail a NFA weapon if I didn't have to.

crazyelece wrote:
thecameraman79 wrote:FOPA is a federal law affecting everyone including states. Avoiding a city is one thing, trying to get to Maine from PA is physically impossible.

http://s95.photobucket.com/user/mikecle ... p.png.html

Police are human and don't know every single law but as a firearm owner it's good to know the laws and with be able to inform and educate police. You can't be afraid to do something legal because you might run into a cop that isn't familiar with the law.
crazyelece wrote:
Just remember FOPA is a federal issue. There is NOTHING stopping a "progressive" LEO from seizing your weapon and making you fight the system to get it back. You can beat the illegal weapon charge but it will still be a burden and a hassle. Detouring around places like Chicago, is a good idea, even if you have crossed all the Ts and dotted all the Is.

It's not about being afraid to do something legal, it's about surrendering your weapons to LE because they have the power to take them.

Do some research, there are plenty of examples (especially around Chicago), of LEOs seizing illegal weapons legally traveling through the area supposedly protected by FOPA.

In some cases weapons are returned after lawyers get invlved (huge $$$ thrown away), but there are many cases where seized weapons never get returned and are destroyed.

Flat tires, wrecks, stopping for fuel or food, car troubles, etc.; there are many ways LEOs can interrupt a "passing through" trip.

As to your Maine to PA example, most of that trip is not through any "progressive" area. I would avoid New York City and NJ like the plague but that's me.

Worst case scenario, you can always mail the weapon to yourself or travel by air.

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by crazyelece » Thu May 25, 2017 4:55 pm

thecameraman79 wrote:Straight off the Chicago Firearms PDF...

https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/ ... hicago.pdf

Page 11, section "8-20-090 Interstate Transportation of Firearms"

"it shall NOT be a violation of this chapter if a person transporting a firearm OR ammunition while engaging in interstate travel is in compliance with 18 U.S.C.A 926A. (interstate transportation of firearms). There shall be a rebuttable presumption that any person within the city for more then 24 hours is not engaged in interstate travel, and is subject to the provisions of this chapter.

So it is clearly spelled out in the Chicago city ordinance.

Illegal weapon was the key words. I am an Military Police officer in the Army. In 2013 Obama made an addendum to the LEOSA law allowing MP's to be included in LEOSA which allows MP's the same rights as off duty officers in carrying 50 state legal (there are provisions of course not allowing to carry in school zones or federal buildings still, etc). I had a buddy get pulled over in NJ and he handed the officer his ID card. The cop asked why he handed it to him and he said he wanted him to know he was carrying. The officer then proceeded to pull him out of the car, take his weapon for "safety" and handcuffed him and told him he wasn't allowed to carry and that the card looked fake.

My buddy advised him to contact his supervisor and once the supervisor got there they took a few minutes and the supervisor got out of the car and apologized to my buddy. Police don't know every single law, it's impossible. I am card holder #426 and there has been less then 1,000 cards issued since they started issuing them a year ago. You can't be afraid to do something legal because someone might not know the laws. I explained the "safe travel" clause to one of my NJ police officer buddies and he swore up and down there was no such thing and that I would have to inform the police. I had to show him the NJ State police website that says the exact opposite thing to get him to realize he was completely wrong. Know your laws. You can avoid a city but just because I drive through rural NY doesn't mean I'm not going to run into a rural cop that doesn't know the laws either.

P.S. there is no way I'd ever mail a NFA weapon if I didn't have to.

crazyelece wrote:
thecameraman79 wrote:FOPA is a federal law affecting everyone including states. Avoiding a city is one thing, trying to get to Maine from PA is physically impossible.

http://s95.photobucket.com/user/mikecle ... p.png.html

Police are human and don't know every single law but as a firearm owner it's good to know the laws and with be able to inform and educate police. You can't be afraid to do something legal because you might run into a cop that isn't familiar with the law.

It's not about being afraid to do something legal, it's about surrendering your weapons to LE because they have the power to take them.

Do some research, there are plenty of examples (especially around Chicago), of LEOs seizing illegal weapons legally traveling through the area supposedly protected by FOPA.

In some cases weapons are returned after lawyers get invlved (huge $$$ thrown away), but there are many cases where seized weapons never get returned and are destroyed.

Flat tires, wrecks, stopping for fuel or food, car troubles, etc.; there are many ways LEOs can interrupt a "passing through" trip.

As to your Maine to PA example, most of that trip is not through any "progressive" area. I would avoid New York City and NJ like the plague but that's me.

Worst case scenario, you can always mail the weapon to yourself or travel by air.
OK so you proved my point, LEOs don't always do the right thing. Lucky for your buddy the supervisor knew the law correctly and fixed the situation. It could have just as easily happened like this, supervisor gets there and agrees with officer. Weapon is seized and buddy goes to jail. Lawyers need to get involved and prosecutor okays dismissing charges due to federal law. Buddy may or may not get the weapon back. I know of areas that would write a check before giving a seized weapon back. Now that may be all well and good for a defensive handgun, but a title 2 weapon is a bigger sting and God forbid it is a MG.

Like I said it's not about fear of the law, it's about the fact that a 2 hour detour is less aggravating and time consuming than a LEO encounter could be.

Everyone remembers the NJ LEO encounter of the PA ccw woman right? 1 little oops cost sooooo much time, money, and freedom. Granted she didn't follow the letter of the law, but nothing good comes from "progressive" LEO encounters when firearms are involved.

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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by thecameraman79 » Tue May 30, 2017 8:35 am

It might have been a "mistake" on her part but she COMPLETELY BROKE THE LAW like it or not since it is very clear that NJ does NOT have reciprocity with PA CCW permits. I live in PA and work in NJ so it was a 2 min google search that she didn't do to find out she couldn't carry in NJ. "Ignorance is NOT bliss". That was NOT a case of the officer not knowing the law so you have zero point to be made. The facts are my buddy wouldn't have even needed to hire a lawyer since he was 1,000% in the right and the cop was completely in the wrong. If anything he would have probably had a good counter suit against the city had they arrested him. Again as an example it is CLEARLY written on the NJ State website that it is legal to transport through the state. Know your laws, know the states you are traveling through laws and know the federal laws. I will NOT try and mail my NFA items to a hotel where I may be staying because the states I am driving through don't allow ownership of that item when federal law states I can travel through the state, plain and simple.
crazyelece wrote:
thecameraman79 wrote:Straight off the Chicago Firearms PDF...

https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/ ... hicago.pdf

Page 11, section "8-20-090 Interstate Transportation of Firearms"

"it shall NOT be a violation of this chapter if a person transporting a firearm OR ammunition while engaging in interstate travel is in compliance with 18 U.S.C.A 926A. (interstate transportation of firearms). There shall be a rebuttable presumption that any person within the city for more then 24 hours is not engaged in interstate travel, and is subject to the provisions of this chapter.

So it is clearly spelled out in the Chicago city ordinance.

Illegal weapon was the key words. I am an Military Police officer in the Army. In 2013 Obama made an addendum to the LEOSA law allowing MP's to be included in LEOSA which allows MP's the same rights as off duty officers in carrying 50 state legal (there are provisions of course not allowing to carry in school zones or federal buildings still, etc). I had a buddy get pulled over in NJ and he handed the officer his ID card. The cop asked why he handed it to him and he said he wanted him to know he was carrying. The officer then proceeded to pull him out of the car, take his weapon for "safety" and handcuffed him and told him he wasn't allowed to carry and that the card looked fake.

My buddy advised him to contact his supervisor and once the supervisor got there they took a few minutes and the supervisor got out of the car and apologized to my buddy. Police don't know every single law, it's impossible. I am card holder #426 and there has been less then 1,000 cards issued since they started issuing them a year ago. You can't be afraid to do something legal because someone might not know the laws. I explained the "safe travel" clause to one of my NJ police officer buddies and he swore up and down there was no such thing and that I would have to inform the police. I had to show him the NJ State police website that says the exact opposite thing to get him to realize he was completely wrong. Know your laws. You can avoid a city but just because I drive through rural NY doesn't mean I'm not going to run into a rural cop that doesn't know the laws either.

P.S. there is no way I'd ever mail a NFA weapon if I didn't have to.

crazyelece wrote:

It's not about being afraid to do something legal, it's about surrendering your weapons to LE because they have the power to take them.

Do some research, there are plenty of examples (especially around Chicago), of LEOs seizing illegal weapons legally traveling through the area supposedly protected by FOPA.

In some cases weapons are returned after lawyers get invlved (huge $$$ thrown away), but there are many cases where seized weapons never get returned and are destroyed.

Flat tires, wrecks, stopping for fuel or food, car troubles, etc.; there are many ways LEOs can interrupt a "passing through" trip.

As to your Maine to PA example, most of that trip is not through any "progressive" area. I would avoid New York City and NJ like the plague but that's me.

Worst case scenario, you can always mail the weapon to yourself or travel by air.
OK so you proved my point, LEOs don't always do the right thing. Lucky for your buddy the supervisor knew the law correctly and fixed the situation. It could have just as easily happened like this, supervisor gets there and agrees with officer. Weapon is seized and buddy goes to jail. Lawyers need to get involved and prosecutor okays dismissing charges due to federal law. Buddy may or may not get the weapon back. I know of areas that would write a check before giving a seized weapon back. Now that may be all well and good for a defensive handgun, but a title 2 weapon is a bigger sting and God forbid it is a MG.

Like I said it's not about fear of the law, it's about the fact that a 2 hour detour is less aggravating and time consuming than a LEO encounter could be.

Everyone remembers the NJ LEO encounter of the PA ccw woman right? 1 little oops cost sooooo much time, money, and freedom. Granted she didn't follow the letter of the law, but nothing good comes from "progressive" LEO encounters when firearms are involved.

crazyelece
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Re: Out of state travel with SBR

Post by crazyelece » Wed May 31, 2017 3:28 pm

thecameraman79 wrote:It might have been a "mistake" on her part but she COMPLETELY BROKE THE LAW like it or not since it is very clear that NJ does NOT have reciprocity with PA CCW permits. I live in PA and work in NJ so it was a 2 min google search that she didn't do to find out she couldn't carry in NJ. "Ignorance is NOT bliss". That was NOT a case of the officer not knowing the law so you have zero point to be made. The facts are my buddy wouldn't have even needed to hire a lawyer since he was 1,000% in the right and the cop was completely in the wrong. If anything he would have probably had a good counter suit against the city had they arrested him. Again as an example it is CLEARLY written on the NJ State website that it is legal to transport through the state. Know your laws, know the states you are traveling through laws and know the federal laws. I will NOT try and mail my NFA items to a hotel where I may be staying because the states I am driving through don't allow ownership of that item when federal law states I can travel through the state, plain and simple.
You obviously need the last word so this is my last post about this.

There are many "laws" at play. Federal, state, local no one knows them all, not even LEOs.

"The facts are my buddy wouldn't have even needed to hire a lawyer since he was 1,000% in the right and the cop was completely in the wrong. If anything he would have probably had a good counter suit against the city had they arrested him." so much derp

You mean sue? maybe, but not just because an invalid arrest was made. Also it involves lawyers :roll:

Do the research, FOPA has and will be ignored at the state and local level, you have been warned, swim at your own risk!

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