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Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:45 pm
by cyclone72
I have a rifle I want to remove from the SBR status with the NFA. How would I go about doing that? This rifle is on the same trust as my other NFA stuff.

TIA

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:00 pm
by doubloon
Get rid of the short barrel(s).

Send the BATFE a letter telling them it's no longer a SBR, maybe in a couple three or five years they'll send you a letter back saying they removed it from the registry :wink:

Voila! Ghost gun.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:47 pm
by T-Rex
I don't believe there's actually a notification requirement. Obviously, if you want them to forget about it you'll need to send one. As far as removing it from SBR status, simply put a bbl >16" on it. As far as I know, that's all you need to sell it as a non-NFA firearm.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:39 pm
by doubloon
That's probably true but that doesn't remove the item from the registry.

Could that complicate the sale of the item without a $200 tax if there were any reason to run a check on the serial number before or after the sale?

I'm not aware of a procedure documented by the ATF but I recall on this forum and others a request to the ATF to remove the serial number from the database has worked for some.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:48 pm
by John A.
You do have to notify them of the change in writing.

They specifically say they want to be notified of permanent changes.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:44 pm
by doubloon
John A. wrote:...
They specifically say they want to be notified of permanent changes.
Ah ... I do kinda remember reading something like that somewhere, the 'permanent change' words.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:02 pm
by cyclone72
Thanks for the info guys. I think I have enough to go on to do this legitimately.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:36 am
by YugoRPK
Assuming its an AR Spend $60 on a receiver and swap parts.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:56 am
by doubloon
YugoRPK wrote:Assuming its an AR Spend $60 on a receiver and swap parts.
More reliable than any ATF records.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:06 pm
by John A.
And you don't lose out your $200 tax stamp either.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:32 pm
by crazyelece
First , no one is required to notify the ATF of anything. Yes they request it, but there is no law in place to force you to or to let them punish you for not notifying.

Second, even if you notify them, the serial number does NOT get removed from the registry. A note gets added about the change and the status, but the serial remains on the registry forever.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:51 pm
by T-Rex
doubloon wrote:
YugoRPK wrote:Assuming its an AR Spend $60 on a pistol receiver and swap parts.
More reliable than any ATF records.
You still have a <16" bbl so keep or sell buttstock separately.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:41 pm
by doubloon
Yeah, actually embarrassed it never occurred to me before.

Pretty much takes all the headaches and roadblocks out of registering a SBR in this time of disposable lowers.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:50 pm
by crazyelece
Realize the $60 lower only applies to ARs though, and that doesn't work if you sell both halves together (unless your also going to get a brace and sell it as a pistol config).

You should also realize in doing so, that you still are technically breaking the law as you are building a firearm for sale without the license to do so (I know, don't ask - don't tell, keep your trap shut, etc.)

It can get really frustrating for other weapons systems, like a MP5 clone for instance, where the receiver can't be replaced as easily and/or as cheaply.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:06 pm
by cyclone72
YugoRPK wrote:Assuming its an AR Spend $60 on a receiver and swap parts.
GENIUS! This is what I’ll do!
Thanks

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:38 pm
by YugoRPK
crazyelece wrote: You should also realize in doing so, that you still are technically breaking the law as you are building a firearm for sale without the license to do so (I know, don't ask - don't tell, keep your trap shut, etc.)
Oh yeah. Thats a concern :roll:

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:03 am
by hardcase
cyclone72 wrote:
YugoRPK wrote:Assuming its an AR Spend $60 on a receiver and swap parts.
GENIUS! This is what I’ll do!
Thanks
You will need to strip the SBR lower of parts then destroy it. Then send the letter to ATF. If it is in a trust like mine the name of the Firearms Trust is ingraved on the lower somewhere to meet NFA requirements. You don't want this lower floating around with your Trust name on it.

Most people who do SBRs don't stop with the barrel. Mine has more worth in just the trigger than a whole standard 16" rifle is worth to "John Doe" used firearms buyer.

If you are still able, just stick the NFA lower into your safe for a future build, sell the parts or buy another lower somewhere. I have seen Anderson lowers for $39.95 on sale at various places. I bought one at a local gun store for that amount.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:18 pm
by YugoRPK
hardcase wrote:
cyclone72 wrote:
YugoRPK wrote:Assuming its an AR Spend $60 on a receiver and swap parts.
GENIUS! This is what I’ll do!
Thanks
You will need to strip the SBR lower of parts then destroy it.
What? No you don't. Why on Gods green earth would you do that? Just take the parts off it ( or buy a new LPK. Lots easier than pulling those stupid roll pins out ) and shove it in the safe, sock drawer or whatever . Years down the road when you have pulled your head out of your rectum or are back bucks up turn it into something else.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:18 pm
by cyclone72
I’m going to keep the sbr as is and get another lower to go with the upper that’s on the sbr lower. It’s 16”. I don’t need to destroy anything. It’s going in the safe for a future build.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:30 pm
by rb288
I did just that with an SBS I decided I didn't want to shorten.
I sent a letter to the NFA branch of ATF with a with a copy of the form 1, asking for it to be removed from the registry as I decided not the shorten it.
I got a reply in 2 weeeks saying it had been removed.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:06 pm
by YugoRPK
rb288 wrote:I did just that with an SBS I decided I didn't want to shorten.
I sent a letter to the NFA branch of ATF with a with a copy of the form 1, asking for it to be removed from the registry as I decided not the shorten it.
I got a reply in 2 weeeks saying it had been removed.
Since you didnt build it they should give you a refund on the build excise tax....If you ask.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:02 pm
by rogerme
cyclone72 wrote:I have a rifle I want to remove from the SBR status with the NFA. How would I go about doing that? This rifle is on the same trust as my other NFA stuff.

TIA
Assemble it into a non NFA configuration and your done. A SBR is only NFA while configured as such.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:28 pm
by doubloon
rogerme wrote:
cyclone72 wrote:I have a rifle I want to remove from the SBR status with the NFA. How would I go about doing that? This rifle is on the same trust as my other NFA stuff.

TIA
Assemble it into a non NFA configuration and your done. A SBR is only NFA while configured as such.
Could that complicate the sale of the item without a $200 tax if there were any reason to run a check on the serial number before or after the sale?

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:32 am
by T-Rex
I'd be surprised if a serial check came back with more than Make/Model/Stolen?

As per the SBR status:
Q: Does the installation of a barrel over 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA? If so, is this considered a permanent change?
A:Installation of a barrel greater than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) will remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA provided the registrant does not maintain control over the parts necessary to reconfigure the firearm as a SBR or SBS.

Re: Remove rifle from sbr status

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:28 pm
by John A.
I know the NFA branch put their approval on that goofy jibberish many years ago, and I have always questioned some of what was in the "handbook" especially considering that if you read the opening page it says quite clearly:

This publication is not a law book.

Barrel length doesn't really change the exemption status because the tax has already been paid on the serialized part (typically the receiver). Therefore, the make/model/serial records is still going to be in the registry despite which barrel length is installed at any given time.

Remember, you can change any barrel length or caliber as a temporary change any time you wish. ATF openly says that.

And they say you can voluntarily withdraw the status.

But they also say they want to be notified of PERMANENT changes too.

Trick question, what if you don't have a barrel installed in the gun at all. You have an AR15, you take the upper off in the process of changing uppers. Does that change the status of the SBR?

No, it doesn't. Actually, the barrel has nothing to do with the receiver itself at all. Unless that's where the engraving is marked.

By that same logic, I can decide to not notify NFA branch that I plan to just go out and sell my transferable machinegun face to face to the hobo on the street corner today if I just take the trigger out of it first. :roll: