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Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:20 pm
by coloradok9
Gents,

Am I understanding this correctly. If I create a Revocable Living Trust (which I have no idea how) and I decide to SBR an existing AR lower I own, I do not have to engrave my info on the reciever? Also I do not need finger prints or CLEO signature on my form 1? I am also assuming I wouldnt need a picture of myself either? So my question is how do I create a RLT? Is it similar to an LLC? Im sure some of you register NFA this way, so whats up, how can I do this?

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:04 pm
by MCFLURY
I am pretty sure you still have to engrave your lower since you "the trust " are creating a NFA weapon the trust is just a way to own the weapon But of course I am not a lawyer hell i really dont know anything so better do yourself some more research

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:43 pm
by mike_0120
Lots of existing posts on this topic. Try using the search feature.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:33 pm
by cajun 22
You will have to engrave the entire trust name and city/state on the receiver or barrel if you choose. A trust does not require fingerprints or passport photos. I used an attorney to draft the trust.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:14 am
by coloradok9
Thanks for help!

@ Mike I did attempt to search this topic, I couldnt find any answers on how to set up a revocable living trust, which is actually my question.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:19 am
by Diomed
coloradok9 wrote:... I couldnt find any answers on how to set up a revocable living trust, which is actually my question.
Contract a lawyer, or get a trust in a box. Skip the ones you can copy online, and save yourself the headaches that come with them.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:57 am
by coloradok9
Contract a lawyer, or get a trust in a box. Skip the ones you can copy online, and save yourself the headaches that come with them.
So forget about the Quicken or Legal zoom types I can do online. I only ask because Im a deployed Soldier with limited support, I was trying to avoid CLEO signature, photo and prints on my form1, and try and knock my waiting period out while im deployed. Thanks for the advice Diomed.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:57 am
by Diomed
coloradok9 wrote:So forget about the Quicken or Legal zoom types I can do online.
No, I meant the trusts that various people have posted up online for others to copy. Quick route to an invalid trust. The online ones you mention are pretty much just the same as the regular trust-in-a-box from those companies.

If you're deployed, the local JAG shop should be able to do a regular trust for you, which is enough as long as you're not adding in complexity with multiple trustees, underage beneficiaries, etc.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:02 am
by coloradok9
Thanks Diomed, you are a plethera of knowledge!

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:19 pm
by FA Gunner
JAG will probably not do the Trust. Basically they can knock out wills and powers of attorneys and can notarize, but I have yet to find a JAG that will do a trust for me and I have gotten to know a couple of them pretty well. Since they are not estate attorneys they are not comfortable with doing them. Get a copy of quicken and then have your JAG, actually the legal clerk, dont waste time talking to one of the actually JAG officers, to take care of the notarizing of it.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:49 am
by coloradok9
FA Gunner, Thanx for the advice. I wont waste my time with JAG, not that I have any close, but im sure I can find a notary, any advice on the Quicken route?

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:47 am
by johndoe3
Quicken Willmaker works and makes them correct for each State. Go to E-Bay.com and type in Willmaker. Buy a 2008 Willmaker, since they removed Trusts in the 2009 and 2010 versions. You should be able to buy 2008 Willmaker for ~$12-15. It has a good legal manual built in and you can make a Trust in a half an hour. Then notarize it and you are done.

Willmaker cannot make Co-Trustees for NFA. Willmaker makes a simple 1-person Trust or A-B Trust for husband and wife. It will default to a long Trust name "John J. Coloradok9 Revocable Living Trust", and that's too long for engraving for a Form 1. I exported the Trust in Willmaker and opened it in OpenOffice. I renamed the Trust to "Coloradok9 Firearms Trust". If you do that, carefully go through the entire Trust because you'll need to change the name a few times in the Trust language. Also, make sure the formatting for your exported Trust is exactly the same as when printed in the Quicken Willmaker program.

I don't know whether the online Quicken Trust process on their website allows you to export the Trust and change the name to something shorter and more appropriate in my mind.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:12 am
by coloradok9
johndoe 3, you're 10 minutes to late, I just purchased and downloaded Willmaker 2010. Guess ill hunt down 2008 version, anyway thanks for the info, I wouldnt mind keeping the name shorter, so I will attempt to export the doc and shorten the name. Thanks again your help is greatly appreciated.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:44 am
by coloradok9
so once I make my trust and have it notarized, I need to send the trust, Form 1, ATF 5330.20 (certificate of compliance) and my 200 bones to the ATF for review? Then wait?

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:56 am
by coloradok9
OK, I have Willmaker 2008. Which trust will work for what I'm trying to do?

AB living trust or Basic Living trust?

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:12 am
by Queso Grande
coloradok9 wrote:so once I make my trust and have it notarized, I need to send the trust, Form 1, ATF 5330.20 (certificate of compliance) and my 200 bones to the ATF for review? Then wait?
Did you lose a few

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:55 pm
by Islander
coloradok9 wrote:OK, I have Willmaker 2008. Which trust will work for what I'm trying to do?

AB living trust or Basic Living trust?
Basic Trust. I made ours (husband and wife) using Basic Trust with Willmaker Plus 2009.

Feel free to email me.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:33 pm
by FA Gunner
Also, make sure you send a copy of the trust, maintain the orginal someplace safe. In fact make a couple of copies so you have backup. But yes, you send the Form 1 (or 4 depending), cert of compliance, copy of trust to include the Schedule A (with the AR receiver listed), and a MO or check for $200.

Check with PAC, one of the PAC clerks might be able to notarize it for you, otherwise any of the legal clerks should be able do it. Most places I've been at had a legal clerk from BDE either working at your BN HQ or made regular rounds to the BNs. Otherwise, you'll have to wait until you get a chance to get to one of the larger FOBs.

Drop me an email through the site and it will go to my AKO email if you want or need any other help.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:45 am
by johndoe3
Since you're new to Trusts.
1. Grantor and Trustee is you.
2. The Successor Trustee is the executor if you die, so it cannot be you. :D
3. You cannot be the beneficiary. I think the couple of Trusts found to be invalid by BATFE had the same person for Grantor, Trustee, Successor Trustee and Beneficiary.

Use the basic Trust in Willmaker. Get it Notarized and you're good to go. No registration of Trusts in Colorado except at death of the Grantor.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:15 am
by Islander
FA Gunner wrote:Also, make sure you send a copy of the trust, maintain the orginal someplace safe. In fact make a couple of copies so you have backup. But yes, you send the Form 1 (or 4 depending), cert of compliance, copy of trust to include the Schedule A (with the AR receiver listed), and a MO or check for $200.

Check with PAC, one of the PAC clerks might be able to notarize it for you, otherwise any of the legal clerks should be able do it. Most places I've been at had a legal clerk from BDE either working at your BN HQ or made regular rounds to the BNs. Otherwise, you'll have to wait until you get a chance to get to one of the larger FOBs.

Drop me an email through the site and it will go to my AKO email if you want or need any other help.
My examiner requested schedules A, B, and C. I did not add my can to the trust until after I received it. But I did add "1 US Dollar". If you don't have anything in the trust, some examiners will deem it invalid. Adding a "token" item to the trust creates an "unfunded trust", which is a valid trust. Once you add anything of substantial value, it becomes a funded trust. Your examiner may not require your schedule forms. After all, these forms should be private. But mine did. Actually, they signed and mailed my forms, then requested my schedules!

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:35 pm
by MCASSgt New River
coloradok9 wrote:so once I make my trust and have it notarized, I need to send the trust, Form 1, ATF 5330.20 (certificate of compliance) and my 200 bones to the ATF for review? Then wait?

NOT REQUIRED: ATF 5330.20 (certificate of compliance)

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:35 am
by coloradok9
I really appreciate everyones help with this. When I completed my trust with the willmaker software on the CERTIFICATE OF ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF NOTARY PUBLIC form its asking for a Colorado notary, has anyone ran into this same perdiciment. I really doubt I can find one in Afghanistan.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:09 am
by johndoe3
Here are the Colorado statutes online. Title 15 is Probate, Trusts and Fiduciaries
http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dl ... -h.htm&cp=

The reason I gave the link above, is that the requirement for a Colorado Notary gives notaries in Colorado the requirements on how they carry out their job (by giving the County, etc.). You would have to look in the Statutes (15) to see whether a Colorado Notary is required for a Trust or Certification. I think it probably is not, but I'm not sure. I had mine notarized for free by a Bank Officer at my Bank. They were happy to do it for free (Wells Fargo).

The Statute will tell you if a Colorado notary is required, regardless of what the form says. I couldn't find the answer in the Statutes myself in a few minutes so I gave up. I guess I would advise you to just get it notarized where you are at. A Revocable Living Trust does not require registration with the Court until the Grantor dies.

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:11 am
by Islander
MCASSgt New River wrote:
coloradok9 wrote:so once I make my trust and have it notarized, I need to send the trust, Form 1, ATF 5330.20 (certificate of compliance) and my 200 bones to the ATF for review? Then wait?

NOT REQUIRED: ATF 5330.20 (certificate of compliance)

This is supposed to be true. I have a BATFE letter from 2008 that confirms it. But I have heard some examiners are asking for these, so I filled one out anyway and sent it in. Took 3 minutes. Put your Trust Name in Question 1. Put your name in Question 2, and put United States of America in Question 3. Print both sides on one sheet of paper, front and back, and sign/date bottom of front side. Worst they can do is throw it away.

Here is the BATFE FFL Newsletter that says a 5330.20 is not required (page 5, top right paragraph):
http://www.atf.gov/publications/newslet ... 008-11.pdf

You could send this FFL Newsletter to your examiner, but filing out a 5330.20 may prove faster. 8)

Good luck!

Re: Revocable Living Trust

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:14 pm
by FA Gunner
It doesnt have to be a Colorado Notary. The JAG clerks are authorized to notarized under title 10 USC (at least I think it is under title 10) anyway they have their own verbage that you can replace on the quicken trust or they can just write over it with the military info. Military notaries are not licensed by the individual states but it is valid. My first trust I sent in I was worried about since the JAG clerk just lined through the TN state specific notary stuff and hand wrote in his military stuff - but it went through no problems. I then later amended the trust and had a local state notary do it. I would have them make the changes that need to be made to the trust and then re-type it and then have them do the notarization.