Serbu Super Shorty REM870(pics)

[Fireman1291]

^
Cost them $200 to register as an AOW unless they are a low volume manufactuerer. Your eating that cost. Unless someone can correct me.

If that is the case then the cost makes sense. Can someone confirm the manufacturer pays $200 to make the weapon?


If I was going to spend that kind of money I would form 1 a SBS, that way I have the option of adding a stock down the road & wouldn't have to deal with the $50 Form 3 Transfer cost to my local dealer. (It is transferred on a form 3 correct? No one really ever said yes or no?)

I see the only advantage of an AOW over a SBS is the ability to transfer it to a new owner for a $5 stamp.

Form3 is a dealer to dealer transfer, so if you bought the Serbu out of state you would have to transfer to your dealer on a F3 reguardless. The gun transfers to you on a F4.

[wakerider017]

^
Cost them $200 to register as an AOW unless they are a low volume manufactuerer. Your eating that cost. Unless someone can correct me.

If that is the case then the cost makes sense. Can someone confirm the manufacturer pays $200 to make the weapon?


If I was going to spend that kind of money I would form 1 a SBS, that way I have the option of adding a stock down the road & wouldn't have to deal with the $50 Form 3 Transfer cost to my local dealer. (It is transferred on a form 3 correct? No one really ever said yes or no?)

I see the only advantage of an AOW over a SBS is the ability to transfer it to a new owner for a $5 stamp.

Form3 is a dealer to dealer transfer, so if you bought the Serbu out of state you would have to transfer to your dealer on a F3 reguardless. The gun transfers to you on a F4.

Right. Your local dealer charges you X amount of dollars ($50 in my case) for the form 3 transfer and holding of the weapon while you wait for your form 4 to be approved. Just making sure that was the case with AOW's too.

Form 1 doesn't require you to have to mess around with local dealers. Nice, because the only thing you have to do it get it engraved.

[Fireman1291]

Right. Your local dealer charges you X amount of dollars ($50 in my case) for the form 3 transfer and holding of the weapon while you wait for your form 4 to be approved. Just making sure that was the case with AOW's too.

Form 1 doesn't require you to have to mess around with local dealers. Nice, because the only thing you have to do it get it engraved.

Correct. Mine also charges $50.....when I hear stories of guys having to pay $100-$150 I cringe....what a fucking rip.

[GonePostal]

Pic of mine in action with Knox Breacher's Grip.

Trust me, you DON'T want to fire a shorty like this without a BG unless you're into pain.

[Sid Post]

.I'd just like to see it with a lower price tag.

$300 for 870 receiver, $25 for pistol grip, $X for some welding, barrel shortening and a VFG = $775

With a little algebra I found out X = $450 (even if you got it for under $700, X ~ $350)


Does no one else think that is high? I'm not an expert on this. Am I missing something? Is it expensive for a dealer to build an AOW? Some kind of a tax?

You're missing a lot of experience and knowledge. There is a lot of difference in buying a beater 870, a random POS front grip, barrel hack, random welding, and a refinish compared to a quilty build complete package.

Form 1 makes it an SBS with a $200 tax versus the $5 transfer tax YOU pay the ATF.

The cost of tooling to knurl, cut, weld, machine, etc. is missing.

Finally, you have all the R&D and messed up stuff getting it done right. When you compare the Safety Harbor to the Serbu, it is obvious that this seemingly simple little conversion isn't as simple as the naive may think (no offense intended).

Hacking up a Remington 870, simple. Doing it right, priceless.

[Crosshair]

Buying an AOW is $5, so there's a point in buying them. I'd only make an AOW in a state where SBS is illegal.

That's one reason I have my Kimmel Kamper AOW. SBS's are illegal over in MN unless they are C&R.

that and I don't need ATF permission when taking it across state lines so it makes a nice "motel gun" because it fits great in my overnight bag.

[Sid Post]

Buying an AOW is $5, so there's a point in buying them. I'd only make an AOW in a state where SBS is illegal.

that and I don't need ATF permission when taking it across state lines so it makes a nice "motel gun" because it fits great in my overnight bag.

I had mine built to fit inside my small "roller" bag. They are definitely discreet (like a handgun) when traveling via the public roads. However, I don't stay anywhere (hotel/motel) where I think there might be a need for it these days.

[Crosshair]

I had mine built to fit inside my small "roller" bag. They are definitely discreet (like a handgun) when traveling via the public roads. However, I don't stay anywhere (hotel/motel) where I think there might be a need for it these days.

I don't either, but with travel across 5 states to various sites I don't know where the good and bad places are so it's good to have a "Plan B".

Since it's a single shot my typical "deployment" entails using it for the first shot and then switching to another gun if further resistance is met by the shootee's buddies or the person shot hasn't realized they're dead yet from the 20 pellets of #3 buckshot. (I should see about getting some 3" 18 pellet #2 buckshot loads. I really need to start reloading 20 gauge buckshot so I can practice more with buckshot loads) If anyone left decides to vacate the area, then I'll try a reload in case they catch a case of stupid and come back.

[wakerider017]

You're missing a lot of experience and knowledge. There is a lot of difference in buying a beater 870, a random POS front grip, barrel hack, random welding, and a refinish compared to a quilty build complete package.

Form 1 makes it an SBS with a $200 tax versus the $5 transfer tax YOU pay the ATF.

The cost of tooling to knurl, cut, weld, machine, etc. is missing.

Finally, you have all the R&D and messed up stuff getting it done right. When you compare the Safety Harbor to the Serbu, it is obvious that this seemingly simple little conversion isn't as simple as the naive may think (no offense intended).

Hacking up a Remington 870, simple. Doing it right, priceless.

Thanks for being a dick about it

Can "Sid the EXPERT w/ EXPERIENCE & KNOWLEDGE" please explain to me the difference between a "beater 870 receiver" and a good one? Last I checked they are all pretty much made the same with the exception of finish.

& if you know me on these forums you know I'm all about going cheap on gun builds.. That's why I buy the cheapest guns like Noveske, HK, Colt, etc & pair 'em up with the shittiest furniture I can find like Magpul & Larue & finally because of my frugal nature I slap a AAC or SWR can on the end of the muzzle. So Why wouldn't I find the cheapest plastic parts made form China & sold on eBay for this shotgun?

You're argument is FLAWED Sid. From what you've written it appears you claim a FORM 1 SBS can never be as nice as a "quality build complete package". It is simply to complicated! I'm sorry, but that is garbage.

The SAME 870 receiver that is on that AOW shotty is approx $300. The SAME Hogue grip the OP is using costs approx $25. Now this leaves barrel shortening and VFG plus install/weld. If you wanted the utmost quality shotgun barrel trim, I bet TT would do the job for you. They will cut and recrown a rifle barrel for $65. For shits and giggles lets say a shotgun would cost $50 (I feel this value is inflated). This only leaves the VFG and installation of the VFG. Now if you were following this thread from the beginning you would have seen my earlier post that used 6th grade math skills to find out how much we are paying for the VFG. I'll post it again for you:

$300 for 870 receiver, $25 for pistol grip, $50 shorten barrel, $X for some welding, and a VFG = $775

With a little algebra I found out X = $400

This is the "cost of tooling to knurl, weld, machine, etc." (That you made sound way more complicated than actually is) that was missing Your claimed R&D is also in that figure. I forgot they had to reinvent the 870. & I also forgot they were the first to come out with a VFG. So it must have been quite expensive for the to develop such a design . Now sure they have a nice looking VFG.. But are you sure that ONE part justifies the cost?


Now another much friendly poster I was talking to earlier said there was a $200 fee incurred by the manufacturer at the time of build for the AOW. I don't think anyone has said if this is confirmed or not.

If this is the case you are still paying the GOV the $200. It is just in the price of the shotty now. Actually you end up paying a little more than a SBS.. The $200 for the weapon creation and then you're $5 AOW stamp. & some more complicated math for you... $200+$5 = $205 which is greater than $200

Who cares how the money gets to the ATF? You are paying it and it is getting there one way or the other whether you see it or not.

Now as I'm sure Sid the expert already knows there is an advantage and a con to both an AOW and a SBS. AOW can be transferred to new owner for another $5 stamp, but can never have a stock attached. SBS can have a stock but requires a new $200 stamp if sold.



With all that said I'll build my SBS...

$300 for 870 receiver, $25 for pistol grip, $50 shorten barrel, $200 Stamp, $X for some welding, and a VFG = $575+$X

Hell maybe serbu will sell the VFG alone...


Sorry if I was too much of a prick today.. Don't really like being belittled by claimed expert fanboys with a bunch of garbage info... I'm certainly no expert myself....

P.S. I've said everything I have to say in this thread. Not here to start a war.

[Fireman1291]

So my buddy sent out a F4 for a MK99 MOD0 on June25th and it came back approved Aug13th...49days mailbox to mailbox...thats smokin fast. Since we use the same examiner and dealer hopefully Ill be taking my Serbu home by the end of Sept. yay!

[Sid Post]

Correct. Mine also charges $50.....when I hear stories of guys having to pay $100-$150 I cringe....what a fucking rip.

Not really a rip if you have a good dealer that helps you avoid bad choices.

[Fireman1291]

Correct. Mine also charges $50.....when I hear stories of guys having to pay $100-$150 I cringe....what a fucking rip.

Not really a rip if you have a good dealer that helps you avoid bad choices.

Hell I know more about suppressors than my C3 dealer, he admited it.

[Sid Post]

Correct. Mine also charges $50.....when I hear stories of guys having to pay $100-$150 I cringe....what a fucking rip.

Not really a rip if you have a good dealer that helps you avoid bad choices.

Hell I know more about suppressors than my C3 dealer, he admited it.

If I want to play "stump the dealer", I can occasionally win. However, his personal knowledge of full-auto's, DD's, AOW's, SBR's, SBS's, etc. has value to me. He also lets me demo his personal gear before I spend big bucks on stuff. The only way I could shoot a post sample was to give his friends MP-5 a whirl. 9mm M-16, his again. Suppressor demo's, his too. SBR's .....

Call it tuition if you want ....

[Farmall]

I didnt pay MSRP...thats why.

This.

I paid $705 out the door with the stamp for mine.

How did you do that? Was it a remington? Who did you buy from?

[cardboardkiller]

I didnt pay MSRP...thats why.

This.

I paid $705 out the door with the stamp for mine.

How did you do that? Was it a remington? Who did you buy from?

I use Lee's Pawn in Margate, FL. Lee's had 2 new 870's and 2 new 500's in stock, I bought a new 870 model, and he doesn't gouge like the rest of the dealers down here. Most of Lee's business is new NFA and new guns and he keeps a fairly large inventory of cans in stock.

The price Lee's gives you for anything is the out the door price, stamp not included. Lee's is the cheapest and best dealer I've found down here by far. I just wish he was closer.