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Mongo
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Post by Mongo »

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b ... 741&page=1

Guy is saying a pistol gripped shot gun with a 14.5" barrel is not an AOW if the OAL is at least 26"

Says he has an ATF letter coming.
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Post by doubloon »

some of the comments are funny ...

I want a framed copy of that letter, the frame will be the most valuable part
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Post by Mongo »

yeah I looked into it and think he might have found a loop hole but I think many states might have other laws that cover this.
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Post by doubloon »

I'll be interested in reading more about this loophole, maybe I'll re-read over the weekend
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Post by MisterWilson »

My take on it is that the ATF created a new class of firearm, "Pistol Gripped Firearm".

As it's now exempt from shotgun requirements, I fully expect the ATF to classify this as a DD. I've even heard some crazy talk that the ATF already considers things like Mossberg Cruisers DD's, but simply choose not to enforce it.

Just my $.02...
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Post by PTK »

It's still NFA, I have a letter just on such a firearm because I thought similar. It doesn't work out - it's a friggin' DD. Duh.
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Post by Garrett »

MisterWilson wrote:My take on it is that the ATF created a new class of firearm, "Pistol Gripped Firearm".
Not necessarily. You can have a gun that qualifies as a Title I firearm, which does not fall into any of the sub-categories (pistol, rifle, etc.), and does not meet any definition of a Title II firearm.

The original semi-auto Tippman belt-fed guns were like this. They are 1/2 scale .22 versions of the Browning 1917 & 1919. The barrel is less than 16", but it is not "designed to be fired from one hand" like a pistol. ATF made Tippman permanently attach the tripod (on the semi-auto only) so it would not meet their idea of "concealable". It is classified as a "Title I firearm".

A full-sized semi-auto 1919-A4 with a short barrel is the same kind of animal. Not a pistol, but not a rifle either, and doesn't meet any definition within the NFA.
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Post by LawBob »

How does he Taurus judge qualify as title I ?

Couldn't they just produce a pistol grip "rifled barrel" rem870 or mb500
and produce it in any length?
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Post by doubloon »

I believe maximum barrel length for pistols varies by state, don't know of a federal limit.

A rifled barrel is definitely one feature that gets the Judge into title I status ... not sure what role the acceptance of a standard pistol cartridge plays but that may only apply to modified weapons not "designed" weapons.
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Post by YugoRPK »

I agree with his reasoning. Its all there in black and white and the ATF tends to stick to the wording by default. Having said that he is a little optimistic about a time frame to get his letter. My letter experience to the tech branch had one response at 11 months and the other they just never responded to.
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Post by mudshark »

LawBob wrote:How does he Taurus judge qualify as title I ?

Couldn't they just produce a pistol grip "rifled barrel" rem870 or mb500
and produce it in any length?

Judge bore is less than .500" , meaning it's not a DD. Bore is also rifled, meaning it's not AOW.
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LawBob wrote:How does he Taurus judge qualify as title I ?

Couldn't they just produce a pistol grip "rifled barrel" rem870 or mb500
and produce it in any length?
the judge is a rifled pistol with a bore under .50" so it cant be considered a DD and doesnt fall under AOW either since it has a rifled barrel and is designed to be shot with one hand

the same cannot be said for a pump action pistol grip 12 gauge

evem of this person did find a "loop hole" all the ATF has to do is say its not a sporting firearm and by removing the "sporting" exemption to the DD rules will cause it to be a DD....just like the streetsweeper

the atf could also easily argue that the weapon is not designed to be fired with one hand which would put it right back into the AOW class.
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Post by Garrett »

rogerxd45 wrote: the atf could also easily argue that the weapon is not designed to be fired with one hand which would put it right back into the AOW class.
That only applies if the gun is "concealable". They have stated elsewhere that if a gun is over 26", they do not consider it to be concealable.
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Garrett wrote:
rogerxd45 wrote: the atf could also easily argue that the weapon is not designed to be fired with one hand which would put it right back into the AOW class.
That only applies if the gun is "concealable". They have stated elsewhere that if a gun is over 26", they do not consider it to be concealable.
i did not know that.
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Post by Twinsen »

I'm pretty sure it would be illegal under state law in CT. I think they have the 18" thing, but that it being NFA licensed is the defense to prosecution in that state.
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Now that's interesting.
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Post by TOOL1075 »

I was at the gun range a week ago, and I got into a conversation about this very issue with some guy.... but I live in Texas.... strange, because this is almost the same thing he was describing.... said he wrote the ATF and was waiting on a response....

hmm.
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Post by Bowen1911 »

rogerxd45 wrote:
Garrett wrote:
rogerxd45 wrote: the atf could also easily argue that the weapon is not designed to be fired with one hand which would put it right back into the AOW class.
That only applies if the gun is "concealable". They have stated elsewhere that if a gun is over 26", they do not consider it to be concealable.
i did not know that.

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