What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

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slackercruster
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What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by slackercruster » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:55 pm

What reasons are people denied a NFA approval? And if denied, does the dealer refund your money for the item?

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by renegade » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:46 pm

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by rockman96 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:32 pm

Yep, that'll do it. Basically, anything that would prevent you from passing a NICS check and transferriing a regular firearm will keep you from being cleared for an NFA transfer. Felonies, criminal domestic violence, etc.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by slackercruster » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:47 am

Thanks.

Another question.

Can the forms be filled in by hand or do they need to typed?

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by renegade » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:14 am

rockman96 wrote:Yep, that'll do it. Basically, anything that would prevent you from passing a NICS check and transferriing a regular firearm will keep you from being cleared for an NFA transfer. Felonies, criminal domestic violence, etc.
In this instance he still could pass a NICS check and fill out a 4473. It would be a few more weeks before he was indicted and became a prohibited person.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by rockman96 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:50 pm

Is that why it states "charges", and not conviction as the reason?

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by renegade » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:53 pm

rockman96 wrote:Is that why it states "charges", and not conviction as the reason?
Yes, that is all they knew and they wanted to know what the disposition was.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by copenhagen » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:00 pm

C'mon, you gotta tell us, did old boy get cleared and did he get his M42K? Did they refund him is 200 bucks? If not, and he got cleared, would he have to pay again? You see what I'm getting at.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by renegade » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:10 pm

copenhagen wrote:C'mon, you gotta tell us, did old boy get cleared and did he get his M42K? Did they refund him is 200 bucks? If not, and he got cleared, would he have to pay again? You see what I'm getting at.
He was indicted a few weeks later and became a prohibited person. I gave him his money back and sold can to someone else. He got his $200 back. He successfully took a deferred adjudication and all charges were dropped and is no longer a prohibited person.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by copenhagen » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:14 pm

That's good they gave him his 200 bucks back...you'd think he'd try to get the can again since his charges got dropped.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by Capbyrd » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:58 pm

He might not have the money anymore. Lawyers are expensive.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by GoingQuiet » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:19 pm

slackercruster wrote:Thanks.

Another question.

Can the forms be filled in by hand or do they need to typed?
I know a few smaller dealers that do forms by hand. If you have great handwriting, it is not a problem. However I find it is a hell of a lot easier to do it on the computer. Plus, I can correct errors a lot easier with a computer. One error handwritten and it's shredded and do it all over again.

The first Form 4 I did - I had to redo FOUR TIMES because I had gotten it wrong on Acrobat.
copenhagen wrote:That's good they gave him his 200 bucks back...you'd think he'd try to get the can again since his charges got dropped.
Well the $200 is a tax on TRANSFER, not an application fee whether you get approved or not. The $200 goes back to the transferor - aka seller.
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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by 8th SPS USAF » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:43 pm

You can use written, but looks and reads better typed. One of my Suppessors was done by hand.
You can go on some website (NFA I think) and fill it in.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by JohnnyC » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:49 pm

A friend just had one denied because he put "multi" and "barrel less than 16 inches" on his forms instead of picking a caliber and barrel length. He just has to resubmit.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by kwikrnu » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:19 pm

GoingQuiet wrote:Well the $200 is a tax on TRANSFER, not an application fee whether you get approved or not. The $200 goes back to the transferor - aka seller.
When my form 4 was denied they sent me a check for $200, not the dealer/seller.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by Gavin S. » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:00 pm

kwikrnu wrote:
GoingQuiet wrote:Well the $200 is a tax on TRANSFER, not an application fee whether you get approved or not. The $200 goes back to the transferor - aka seller.
When my form 4 was denied they sent me a check for $200, not the dealer/seller.

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Care to share the reason they gave for not approving you?

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by Greg Kulbick » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:13 pm

Gavin S. wrote:
kwikrnu wrote:
GoingQuiet wrote:Well the $200 is a tax on TRANSFER, not an application fee whether you get approved or not. The $200 goes back to the transferor - aka seller.
When my form 4 was denied they sent me a check for $200, not the dealer/seller.

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Care to share the reason they gave for not approving you?
Go get a drink and make a sammich. When you get back, buckle up and click this:

viewtopic.php?f=81&t=54311
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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by Gavin S. » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:45 pm

Go get a drink and make a sammich. When you get back, buckle up and click this:

viewtopic.php?f=81&t=54311[/quote]

Good lord. That's a 138 pg thread. I get the gist from the first few, though. I try not to F--k with the police, as that is a game that favors the house.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by kwikrnu » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:38 am

Greg Kulbick wrote:
Gavin S. wrote:Go get a drink and make a sammich. When you get back, buckle up and click this

viewtopic.php?f=81&t=54311
Good lord. That's a 138 pg thread. I get the gist from the first few, though. I try not to F--k with the police, as that is a game that favors the house.
Don't offend the cops because they might take out their revenge. Some people think we live in a free country, lol.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by Twinsen » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:26 am

Well, I'm gonna try to not sound like a dick here. But not pissing people off is a good way to start out with meeting new people. I sorta want that to not sound hostile. Text makes this difficult.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by charlie0369 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:11 am

I was just recently approved for my form4 (3-38-11) on a .223 suppressor, Only to get to my dealer to have it transfer the item into my trust via form 4473. I was delayed and then subsequently denied on the form 4473 (4-7-11). In Ks you have to do a 4473 check if the item goes through a trust, but does not require a 4473 if the form4 item was done with CLEO signoff to an individual. Either way, I have had two successful 4473's done within last 3 months and neither were denied, only delayed (common first/last name) and I also hold a state CCH permit. No one at the FBI/NICs can tell me why I was denied and they had a rather long discussion amungst themselves (hold for 25min), only to tell me that since the denial was already in the computer, I would have to go throught the appeal process. I am waiting on a call back from the ATF and hopefully someone there can fix this error for me instead of having to wait through this appeal process. I can only imagine the ATF examiner did a 4473 on me to approve my form4

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by Gavin S. » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:41 pm

kwikrnu wrote:
Greg Kulbick wrote:
Gavin S. wrote:Go get a drink and make a sammich. When you get back, buckle up and click this

viewtopic.php?f=81&t=54311
Good lord. That's a 138 pg thread. I get the gist from the first few, though. I try not to F--k with the police, as that is a game that favors the house.
Don't offend the cops because they might take out their revenge. Some people think we live in a free country, lol.
I totally understand your point of view. In a perfect world it should be as you say. Unfortunately, it is not and there are many people working as cops that should not be and That will F--k YOUR LIFE if you piss them off. I'm too damn old to fight the power but have at it if you have the energy.

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by GoingQuiet » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:33 am

I just had my first problem with a Form 4.

This is with a customer that has taken 10 hours of my time on this one transfer.

He decided not to do a trust and went to his CLEO to sign and there was a problem with the signature. So the forms were returned with a request for remediation.
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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by kwikrnu » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:09 am

GoingQuiet wrote:I just had my first problem with a Form 4.

This is with a customer that has taken 10 hours of my time on this one transfer.

He decided not to do a trust and went to his CLEO to sign and there was a problem with the signature. So the forms were returned with a request for remediation.
10 hours is a lot of time, you mind breaking that down?

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Re: What reasons are people denied a NFA approval?

Post by GoingQuiet » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:52 pm

kwikrnu wrote:
GoingQuiet wrote:I just had my first problem with a Form 4.

This is with a customer that has taken 10 hours of my time on this one transfer.

He decided not to do a trust and went to his CLEO to sign and there was a problem with the signature. So the forms were returned with a request for remediation.
10 hours is a lot of time, you mind breaking that down?
No sweat.

Customer calls me wanting to pick my brain on X vs Y vs Z. Ok, no problem. I don't stock Y or Z, if you order it all I'll charge you for is a transfer. I explain how it works.
I get asked will the CLEO sign. I don't know because he lives in another area. Time elapsed: 1 hour.
More brain picking regarding item. Which is best for the money. More brain picking regarding host firearm. Customer says he'd like to buy one tax stamp and then order his item. Time elapsed: 2 hours.
Customer decides on item, orders it and wants me to do the paperwork. Wants me to do form 4 immediately. I explain I can't do the form 4 since the item isn't here. Time elapsed: 2.5 hours.
Customer asks when we can do paperwork multiple times.
Customer asks what's a trust.
Customer asks how he can get a CLEO signature when I know nothing about the policies of his area since he lives an hour away.
Customer lives in city X and county Y. Asks me if he can get a signature from the chief of city W or sheriff of county Z.
Customer asks why haven't I gotten the serial number from the seller.
Customer asks when ATF will get off their butt and send him his item.
Customer asks when forms will be done. Cumulative Time elapsed: 5 hours.
Form 3 copy is sent to me so I can call ATF and check on status. I prep form 4 and explain to customer what to do with it. Customer asks me how CLEO signatures work where I live. Time elapsed: 6 hours.
Customer asks when he can sign the Form 4 and send to ATF. I explain entire purchase process again and that we are waiting for Form 3's to clear at ATF and he has to get a CLEO signature because he doesn't want to spend the money on a trust. Time elapsed: 7 hours.
Customer asks how to get CLEO signature and completes paperwork and wants to send it to ATF and wants me to look over it before Form 3 cleared. Error in paperwork. I send it back to him and explain what he did wrong and not to send it. Time elapsed: 8 hours.
Customer does paperwork correctly and everything looks straight. Form 3 clears. I tell customer to send it to ATF. Time elapsed: 9 hours.
Customer asks me what to send to ATF and for me to look over everything again and when his stamp will get here. Customer reads FAQ on internet about paperwork preperation and explains to me in detail how everything I did was wrong and how I should do it right next time. Time elapsed: 10 hours.

Note: I'm still waiting for the stamp.
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