ATF Explosives License?

[joshrunkle35]

If I purchased a 40mm launcher, would I be able to register with the ATF as an explosives "user" licensee, pay $100 for 3 years, and be able to order and shoot HE rounds?

[Bendersquint]

If I purchased a 40mm launcher, would I be able to register with the ATF as an explosives "user" licensee, pay $100 for 3 years, and be able to order and shoot HE rounds?

Its alot more tha $100 a year, local dealer is getting it right now and last figures I saw was around 10K for him to do it, has to has all sorts of stuff like fire code enforcement, secure storage AWAY from other buildings and alot more including a concrete bunker. He has been trying to get the license(he does legit military training) for over 2 years now and ATF still won't give it to him!

Regardless of all these things, you will be hard pressed to find anyone that will sell you the rounds for it. I am wililng to bet that noone will sell it to you. My SOT when I got into NFA had that license and he could barely get flashbangs, noone owuld sell it to him unless he had an end user certificate showing it was to be tranferred to a PD.

What a pain in the arse, besides the HE rounds are about 375 apiece last time we ordered them. Just stick with the chalk marking rounds of the 22lr beehive.

If it were that easy don't you think that there would be more videos online and people bragging about it? You know we have some rich dogs on this forum!

-B

[PTK]

What the hell are you talking about, $10k? I had my HE permit a while back, and it, the magazine, the paperwork, etc., were all under $500. I didn't live in the city, though.

[Bendersquint]

What the hell are you talking about, $10k? I had my HE permit a while back, and it, the magazine, the paperwork, etc., were all under $500. I didn't live in the city, though.

OK I guess I didn't articulate enough, for him to get the initial license its around 10K, including all that needed to be done to meet all the requirements.

He just did an inspection by the Fire Dept for compliance and was billed $750 by the city.

He is in the outskirts of the city, he is pissed because its constant nickle and dime, more and more things, between the ATF, State, County and City they are squeezing him. The magazine itself cost him over $6K to build.

Its not a cheap thing to do unless you live in Bozeman Montana where they let you do what you want and don't hassle you. I have heard other places that have no issue and some that Bill Gates would think twice due to the cost.

Guess everywhere is different.

-B

[joshrunkle35]

What the hell are you talking about, $10k? I had my HE permit a while back, and it, the magazine, the paperwork, etc., were all under $500. I didn't live in the city, though.

OK I guess I didn't articulate enough, for him to get the initial license its around 10K, including all that needed to be done to meet all the requirements.

He just did an inspection by the Fire Dept for compliance and was billed $750 by the city.

He is in the outskirts of the city, he is pissed because its constant nickle and dime, more and more things, between the ATF, State, County and City they are squeezing him. The magazine itself cost him over $6K to build.

Its not a cheap thing to do unless you live in Bozeman Montana where they let you do what you want and don't hassle you. I have heard other places that have no issue and some that Bill Gates would think twice due to the cost.

Guess everywhere is different.

-B

Sounds like a lot of state laws and local ordnances. Since people on this board live in 50 different states, with multiple different city, county and local ordnances, I was mostly curious as to the actual generic federal laws that apply to everyone. I already know my state's laws. Any answers as to the non-localized, generic federal laws?

PTK, what was your experience? Could you by HE with a user license, or did you get a dealer license?

[Hellrazor]

The most expensive part I've seen is storage, unless you already have something to code... which, who would? Local fire/county signed off for it (ATF needed it). This is for 1.3 explosives... not sure if what you describe has a different process or not.

[okent]

I thought about this when I got my M203.
Lets say I could come up with some HE rounds, what do I do when one fails to go bang?
I just am not set up for unexploded ordinance and from what I understand these things
have one of the highest rates of not detonating.

[joshrunkle35]

I thought about this when I got my M203.
Lets say I could come up with some HE rounds, what do I do when one fails to go bang?
I just am not set up for unexploded ordinance and from what I understand these things
have one of the highest rates of not detonating.

Fire another one in the same impact area.

[kalikraven]

I shot five M433 HEDP last week. I think we paid $78 each for them. It was cool but we set the range on fire...

I'm in the Air Guard and this was for a fam fire. It was cool but if I had them I'd save them for TEOTWAWKI, Major SHTF. Instead of playing with them.

[PTK]

There are only two HE licenses - user permit, or manufacturer's license. I got my user permit, and I could indeed buy HEs. UPS dropped them off.

[joshrunkle35]

There are only two HE licenses - user permit, or manufacturer's license. I got my user permit, and I could indeed buy HEs. UPS dropped them off.

Sweet!

If you purchased a case, but let your license lapse, I realize it would no longer be legal to use them under a user permit, and a dealer could no longer use or deal them, but what happens to the explosives? Can you sell them back to a dealer? Do you turn them in somewhere? Do they stay locked up indefinitely? Do you call out hazmat or the atf?

Also, if you have the time, would you explain your experience with atf in a little more detail? Did they make you do anything different, install different safe, etc?

[PTK]

Here's my basic experience.

At this point in my life, I owned 78 acres, my own home, and was living outside of town limits but inside a county. Stupid ex-wife changed all that....

Anyway, I purchased simple and inexpensive instructions on how to make a small magazine for HEs, and one for primaries. I then built those about 800 feet from the property line, completely opposite one another and nowhere near my other buildings, roads, etc. Basically by themselves.

Once that was done, I applied for my HE user permit, a BATFE field agent scheduled an appointment to come out and see the magazines, brought along a copy of the orange book (HE rules/regs/basic safety) and went over it with me, answering all my questions quite well. A few months later, I had the HE permit in hand, good for either five or three years (I honestly cannot remember...)

Being that there were no local regulations to deal with, I didn't do anything on that front. Basically, anyone who can get an NFA item, if they have the land and build proper magazines, can get an explosives permit.

I think we might be misunderstanding one another, though - when I say I could indeed buy HEs, I mean, high explosives, not m433 rounds. UPS dropped off big cardboard boxes marked "high explosive".

Storing m433s would be annoying - being that they are ready-to-go DDs and also HEs, you'd have to store them both outside of any occupied building and away from roads/trains/etc. by a few hundred feet (depends on the total amount of explosives). You'd need to build a magazine and leave them locked up in there, except when you wanted to go use them, whereupon you'd put them in a day box (portable magazine legal to use for 24 hours or less at a time) and bring them to the firing range, then use them.

Anyway, I never stored much of anything for very long, and had no explosives in my possession at all when I let the license lapse, so I can't answer your question of what happens to them then... I'll dig around for my copy of the orange book and see what the answer is, it's sure to be in there somewhere.


I do hope that helped. Feel free to ask any specifics, I'll do my best to remember.

[okent]

Interesting. I have about the same amount of land out in the country and have thought about getting the permit.
Would I have to live on the property? My in-laws live there but plenty of space to build the storage sites and could have used some HE at least a half a dozen times over the past few years.

[PTK]

You, as the permit holder, would have sole access to the HEs. You'd need to either purchase the land or lease it from them on a long-term basis, but yes, you could have the magazines there and live elsewhere as long as no one else has easy access to the HEs. Locks, two separate magazines (one primaries, one secondaries) and the required distances from the inhabited buildings.

It truly is easy to get, so long as you obey the law and have even basic understanding of how explosives work.

[Steve S]

You will need a type 20 license I believe. Magazine issues as well, Cannot travel by common carrier, i.e. UPS, etc. Special trucking required.
Steve