kel-tec plr-16 gets handgun owner indicted, ill pos SBR

[mcinfantry]

Why is Mr. Sales not "free to travel"?

Ask him. There is more to the story.

[kwikrnu]

Why is Mr. Sales not "free to travel"?

Ask him. There is more to the story.

Ask who? As far as I know the Gallatin Police released the plr16 to Antonio in March. Antonio took the gun to a gun shop and sold it. I don't have any information that Antonio is incarcerated.

[wyoguy]

Ask who? As far as I know the Gallatin Police released the plr16 to Antonio in March. Antonio took the gun to a gun shop and sold it. I don't have any information that Antonio is incarcerated.

Did YOU Not Write Above That YOU "bought it to preserve it for him"?



WYOGUY

[kwikrnu]

I am still lost on this one. If the guy had a carry permit in a gang or not and the weapon in question was legal as I think we all agree it is a handgun. Then how was he forced to sell it they gave it back to him to sell so I woudl suspect there was no reason to believe he had done anything illegal? Further if what I read in the paperwork presented is true then woudl this person not have huge lawsuit pending against the PD that arrested him? Am I missing something?

No, you're missing nothing. It is refreshing to see someone gets it. The reason most likely he has not filed a lawsuit is it costs a lot of money to file a federal civil rights 1983 suit.

[wyoguy]

I am still lost on this one. If the guy had a carry permit in a gang or not and the weapon in question was legal as I think we all agree it is a handgun. Then how was he forced to sell it they gave it back to him to sell so I woudl suspect there was no reason to believe he had done anything illegal? Further if what I read in the paperwork presented is true then woudl this person not have huge lawsuit pending against the PD that arrested him? Am I missing something?

No, you're missing nothing. It is refreshing to see someone gets it. The reason most likely he has not filed a lawsuit is it costs a lot of money to file a federal civil rights 1983 suit.

I think Antonio May Now Be One Of Leonard's 'Trustees'...



WYOGUY

[kwikrnu]

I am still lost on this one. If the guy had a carry permit in a gang or not and the weapon in question was legal as I think we all agree it is a handgun. Then how was he forced to sell it they gave it back to him to sell so I woudl suspect there was no reason to believe he had done anything illegal? Further if what I read in the paperwork presented is true then woudl this person not have huge lawsuit pending against the PD that arrested him? Am I missing something?

No, you're missing nothing. It is refreshing to see someone gets it. The reason most likely he has not filed a lawsuit is it costs a lot of money to file a federal civil rights 1983 suit.

I think Antonio May Now Be One Of Leonard's 'Trustees'...



WYOGUY

He could be.

[kwikrnu]

I think that there would be several lawyers willing to take this case for a percentage of the settlement or to make a name for themselves.

I have asked several le buddies about this. Nobody has yet to figure out why they would give it back to him and order he sell it?

Lawyers are not chomping at the bit for these cases.

No one can figure it out because we've got a bunch of idiot judges and district attorneys around here. They are just as corrupt as the cops and have the same good ole boy education.

[wyoguy]

Don't Forget...

Antonio, WITH Legal Counsel...AGREED To That Disposition(Selling The Gun!) IN EXCHANGE FOR The Charges Being Dropped...

That Tends To Have An Impact On One's Ability To Then Turn Around and Sue...

Just Saying...

WYOGUY

[Twinsen]

Don't Forget...

Antonio, WITH Legal Counsel...AGREED To That Disposition(Selling The Gun!) IN EXCHANGE FOR The Charges Being Dropped...

That Tends To Have An Impact On One's Ability To Then Turn Around and Sue...

Just Saying...

WYOGUY

Uh, yeah, I'd do it too. If they put me in a cage and said I could come out if I gave them my FAL for free, I'd do it. Try being on the wrong side of the law for no reason sometime. Try it and pretend you cannot afford a lawyer.

I don't know who the hell the possible gang member is and I'm not interested. I am interested in what makes a person a 'gang member' under the law. I'm guessing three people waiting to cross the street wearing the same baseball cap are considered a "gang" under the law. I bet I'm committing a felony every time I leave a baseball game.

I think the rifle and documents should go into a "Government Museum of Shame".

[Libertarian_Geek]

Ignorance is no excuse for being raped by a public defender.

Wait.. that's not right.

[lilMAC]

I am ashamed that official court documents from a court in the United States of America state

"It is further ORDERED that the Defendant shall submit any paperwork from said sail..."

Un Damn Believable.

[SundayForever]

Then the buyer if aware this person was charged with having this item claimed to be a SBR would also be committing a crime right?

Then you buying said firearm knowing the state had classified the firearm in question as a SBR would also be committing a crime right?

My point is IF they are charging the guy with possession of a NFA item ( SBR in this case ) why woudl they let the item go? Why would they tell him to sell it? Knowing that selling a SBR not on a form 4 would be illegal.




Buy Runescape Gold,Buy RS Gold,RS Gold

[robblg]

WYOGUY[/quote]


I don't know who the hell the possible gang member is and I'm not interested. I am interested in what makes a person a 'gang member' under the law. I'm guessing three people waiting to cross the street wearing the same baseball cap are considered a "gang" under the law. I bet I'm committing a felony every time I leave a baseball game.[/quote]

Why do you goto alot of baseball games with your "Violent Felon" Buddies??? I don't think Major Cities have "Gang Task Forces" to study people dressing like twins...

[Twinsen]

Why do you goto alot of baseball games with your "Violent Felon" Buddies??? I don't think Major Cities have "Gang Task Forces" to study people dressing like twins...

What they'll commonly charge people with is different than what the law is. I'm not saying cops are going out of their way to F--k everybody over. I'm saying a cop can, because there are ridiculous laws they can throw at people if they wanted to. They keep laws on the books just to threaten stupid or poor people with. Broad interpretations allow them to get anybody for practically anything, if the cop happened to be dirty, which isn't likely. The prosecutor would have to be dirty too, which is a lot more likely. So it's not shocking they could threaten somebody with 5 of those things they could charge anybody with in order to force them to do something like sell one of their guns.

I just spent some time looking at it. Looks like I might have only been committing these heinous acts of gang activity while walking on school grounds (which are probably on 2/3 of the streets in the city) with my offensive and dangerous Yankee cap next to complete strangers wearing matching Yankee caps within 500 yards of Yankee stadium.

What do we have:
Eyeglass screwdriver - concealed dangerous weapon
Clogged gutters - illegal rainwater retention
Yankee cap - gang apparel
Smoking a tobacco cigarette - smell of marijuana, reason to search
Dent in mailbox caused by government plow - no longer fit for use by PMG, legally required to be torn out of the ground (maybe taken?)
Tomato growing kit complete with tomato seeds - drug growing setup, all it'd require to grow drugs is seeds
Heat lamp for pet turtle - drug growing setup
Manure - bomb component!

I've got some serious illegal s--t going on. Repeat offender right here. I bet I even went 26 in a 25 today.

[kwikrnu]

What they'll commonly charge people with is different than what the law is. I'm not saying cops are going out of their way to F--k everybody over. I'm saying a cop can, because there are ridiculous laws they can throw at people if they wanted to. They keep laws on the books just to threaten stupid or poor people with. Broad interpretations allow them to get anybody for practically anything, if the cop happened to be dirty, which isn't likely. The prosecutor would have to be dirty too, which is a lot more likely. So it's not shocking they could threaten somebody with 5 of those things they could charge anybody with in order to force them to do something like sell one of their guns.

Cops, DAs, and Judges are corrupt. As soon as I can legally carry I'll be in front of the Sumner County Court House with the plr-16. We'll see if Lamberth will F--k with a white man who knows his rights.

[mcinfantry]

What they'll commonly charge people with is different than what the law is. I'm not saying cops are going out of their way to F--k everybody over. I'm saying a cop can, because there are ridiculous laws they can throw at people if they wanted to. They keep laws on the books just to threaten stupid or poor people with. Broad interpretations allow them to get anybody for practically anything, if the cop happened to be dirty, which isn't likely. The prosecutor would have to be dirty too, which is a lot more likely. So it's not shocking they could threaten somebody with 5 of those things they could charge anybody with in order to force them to do something like sell one of their guns.

Cops, DAs, and Judges are corrupt. As soon as I can legally carry I'll be in front of the Sumner County Court House with the plr-16. We'll see if Lamberth will F--k with a white man who knows his rights.

What a broad brush you paint with. Your the best.

[Selectedmarksman]

Are we at page 100 yet?

[Dweezil]

Whatever dude. I'm TOTALLY distracted by the Hello Kitty gun. I gots to get me wunna doze pimpin' gatz!

[Twinsen]

What they'll commonly charge people with is different than what the law is. I'm not saying cops are going out of their way to F--k everybody over. I'm saying a cop can, because there are ridiculous laws they can throw at people if they wanted to. They keep laws on the books just to threaten stupid or poor people with. Broad interpretations allow them to get anybody for practically anything, if the cop happened to be dirty, which isn't likely. The prosecutor would have to be dirty too, which is a lot more likely. So it's not shocking they could threaten somebody with 5 of those things they could charge anybody with in order to force them to do something like sell one of their guns.

Cops, DAs, and Judges are corrupt. As soon as I can legally carry I'll be in front of the Sumner County Court House with the plr-16. We'll see if Lamberth will F--k with a white man who knows his rights.

Some of those people are corrupt. Most of the ones you think are corrupt likely just don't know better. I'm sure somebody will F--k with you if you do that. It won't be much of an accomplishment.

[mcinfantry]

What they'll commonly charge people with is different than what the law is. I'm not saying cops are going out of their way to F--k everybody over. I'm saying a cop can, because there are ridiculous laws they can throw at people if they wanted to. They keep laws on the books just to threaten stupid or poor people with. Broad interpretations allow them to get anybody for practically anything, if the cop happened to be dirty, which isn't likely. The prosecutor would have to be dirty too, which is a lot more likely. So it's not shocking they could threaten somebody with 5 of those things they could charge anybody with in order to force them to do something like sell one of their guns.

Cops, DAs, and Judges are corrupt. As soon as I can legally carry I'll be in front of the Sumner County Court House with the plr-16. We'll see if Lamberth will F--k with a white man who knows his rights.

Some of those people are corrupt. Most of the ones you think are corrupt likely just don't know better. I'm sure somebody will F--k with you if you do that. It won't be much of an accomplishment.

Well stated.

[kwikrnu]

Some of those people are corrupt. Most of the ones you think are corrupt likely just don't know better. I'm sure somebody will F--k with you if you do that. It won't be much of an accomplishment.

You give too much credit to the DA. You don't think he knew the federal definition of a pistol before he had sales indicted? Tennessee's definition of a hangun is the same as the fed's definition of a pistol, minus the 12" length requirement.

TCA 39-11-106(a)(16) “Handgun” means any firearm with a barrel length of less than twelve inches (12") that is designed, made or adapted to be fired with one (1) hand;


National Firearms Act 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53
Pistol. A weapon originally designed,
made, and intended to fire a projectile
(bullet) from one or more barrels when
held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(
s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently
aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a
short stock designed to be gripped by one
hand and at an angle to and extending
below the line of the bore(s).

Federal Firearms Act 15 U.S.C. Chapter 18
Handgun. (a) Any firearm which has a
short stock and is designed to be held and
fired by the use of a single hand; and
(b) Any combination of parts from
which a firearm described in paragraph (a)
can be assembled.

Title 27 CFR § 479.11
Pistol. A weapon originally designed,
made, and intended to fire a
projectile (bullet) from one or more
barrels when held in one hand, and
having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral
part(s) of, or permanently
aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a
short stock designed to be gripped
by one hand and at an angle to and
extending below the line of the
bore(s).


The PLR 16 has a barrel which is shorter than 12 inches. The PLR-16 is sold by the manufacturer as a handgun/pistol.
I'd bet that if one took the time to look up the legislative history of the Tennessee handgun definition they would find it was based upon the federal definition of a pistol. It was around 1989 that Tennessee copied the federal definition when they rewrote the criminal code.

[Historian]

".... he advised me had a handgun carry permit and pointed to a short assault rifle
lying next to him ...".

The LEO did his due diligence when directed to an exposed weapon.
Why was it exposed in the first place?
The LEO's designating it an assault rifle was the catalyst for immediate
coloration of subsequent imbroglios. Said another way, when
the legal s--t hit the fan and the driver. Once the incorrect designation
was put into the Officer's notes that set the game. It was the reality.


Perhaps this wise attorney's lecture has not had as wide an exposure as
it is due.

<< http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8153586646# >>

And the follow up by a LEO getting his law degree.

<< http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9458915912 >>.

Let us be aware of our wonderful Constitution for as long as we defend it and have it.

[kwikrnu]

".... he advised me had a handgun carry permit and pointed to a short assault rifle
lying next to him ...".

The LEO did his due diligence when directed to an exposed weapon.
Why was it exposed in the first place?
The LEO's designating it an assault rifle was the catalyst for immediate
coloration of subsequent imbroglios. Said another way, when
the legal s--t hit the fan and the driver. Once the incorrect designation
was put into the Officer's notes that set the game. It was the reality.


Perhaps this wise attorney's lecture has not had as wide an exposure as
it is due.

<< http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8153586646# >>

And the follow up by a LEO getting his law degree.

<< http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9458915912 >>.

Let us be aware of our wonderful Constitution for as long as we defend it and have it.

The Tennessee driver handbook (pg.52) suggests that all motorists inform law enforcement if they have firearms and a handgun carry permit. "Drivers should advise officers if they have a handgun permit and if they are armed."

If the cop made an honest mistake it should have been corrected before Sales was indicted, but the DA went with it. The DA couldn't have not known the definition of a handgun/pistol and that makes him dangerous.

[LYNRDSKYNRD]

Cops, DAs, and Judges are corrupt. As soon as I can legally carry I'll be in front of the Sumner County Court House with the plr-16. We'll see if Lamberth will F--k with a white man who knows his rights.

You go prancing around with your gun in front of the courthouse all you want, but be aware that if you do something that makes one of the "corrupt" police "fear for his or someone else's life" ,which is a subjective matter, then you will be a fucking dead white man who knew his rights. Trust me when I say that a Grand Jury where you live will find it a justified shooting, because a jury of your peers doesn't want your crazy ass or any one else walking around in front of the courthouse with a gun. But you could rest in peace knowing that your family could sue them for wrongful death, which she would lose too because of your past behavior (admissable in civil court). You keep playing with fire and your ass is gonna get torched.

[kwikrnu]

Cops, DAs, and Judges are corrupt. As soon as I can legally carry I'll be in front of the Sumner County Court House with the plr-16. We'll see if Lamberth will F--k with a white man who knows his rights.

You go prancing around with your gun in front of the courthouse all you want, but be aware that if you do something that makes one of the "corrupt" police "fear for his or someone else's life" ,which is a subjective matter, then you will be a fucking dead white man who knew his rights. Trust me when I say that a Grand Jury where you live will find it a justified shooting, because a jury of your peers doesn't want your crazy ass or any one else walking around in front of the courthouse with a gun. But you could rest in peace knowing that your family could sue them for wrongful death, which she would lose too because of your past behavior (admissable in civil court). You keep playing with fire and your ass is gonna get torched.

People wonder why I carry a voice recorder. In addition I have purchased an video recorder.

Who said I was going to "prance"?