Drop in sears for non-AR guns

[Silent Bob]

I find that discussion of this topic tends to get shut down on most other forums due to concerns about unauthorized use, legalities, etc. Seems this forum is a little more open minded.

Speaking from an academic perspective I find the concept of a DIAS mechanically fascinating, but as I'm no machinist it's not something I'd be able to conceive myself. It's interesting to see what ingenuity arises from a need or desire to have something that is otherwise declared by the manufacturer to be "hands off".

I know there was a PS90 DIAS that was created years ago but details were sketchy and no pictures or drawings ever seemed to surface. Anyone know what became of this?

And for the AK fans there is this interesting creation from Germany: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMIIC_MIxMA

The builder describes the device in detail but declines to indulge the viewer in a how-to or with a schematic. A photo is provided which can be used as a starting point I suppose for 02/07s that are so inclined.

What other firearms have DIASs been created for?

[66427vette]

Get off the computer and back to processing form 1's and 4's.

[WooD]

Get off the computer and back to processing form 1's and 4's.

[jlwilliams]

There were some autosears for the closed bolt semi auto Thompson that were registered before the ban.

I remember reading that someone designed one for the MACs but never made it public because there isn't a market for it. Post sample MACs can be made easily enough. He came up with the idea, might have prototyped it, but left it there. The guy who did it is a fairly well known SOT who does a lot with the MACs but I'm not going to name him. Partly because I don't want to name the wrong guy by mistake and partly because he's probably here so if he wants to elaborate that's his post not mine.

[bullyforyou]

i've always been surprised there isn't/wasn't more DIAS-type conversions as well. outside of the DIAS's and LL's for the AR family, there isn't much for truely "drop in" conversions.

IIRC there were some registered "kicker bar" conversions that were done on uzi's, and something similar for MAC's as well. obviously you have the glock conversion (which aren't transferable). outside that, i can't really think of anything that doesn't require some machine time.

[zevdogs]

This is a strange looking one for a AR-15 not the M-16 trigger

[Silent Bob]

LOL no no, I'm not even from the US. My country permits firearms ownership but not full auto so naturally I take an interest in things I find mechanically fascinating that I cannot examine.

That auto sear above, if I'm not mistaken, is an AR-10 DIAS. Not sure what a full auto AR-10 bolt carrier looks like or who makes one; this might be for original AR-10s only.

[zevdogs]

LOL no no, I'm not even from the US. My country permits firearms ownership but not full auto so naturally I take an interest in things I find mechanically fascinating that I cannot examine.

That auto sear above, if I'm not mistaken, is an AR-10 DIAS. Not sure what a full auto AR-10 bolt carrier looks like or who makes one; this might be for original AR-10s only.

It is for an AR-10 but the same concept works on a AR-15 trigger set with an full auto bolt

This type only works with M-16 trigger groups and full auto bolts
ALL THIS INFO IS FROM VECTOR ARMS IN UTAH

[WooD]

LOL no no, I'm not even from the US. My country permits firearms ownership but not full auto so naturally I take an interest in things I find mechanically fascinating that I cannot examine.

That auto sear above, if I'm not mistaken, is an AR-10 DIAS. Not sure what a full auto AR-10 bolt carrier looks like or who makes one; this might be for original AR-10s only.

It is for an AR-10 but the same concept works on a AR-15 trigger set with an full auto bolt

This type only works with M-16 trigger groups and full auto bolts
ALL THIS INFO IS FROM VECTOR ARMS IN UTAH

I have a copy of The AR 15/16 Practical Guide by Duncan Long that has that exact style of DIAS, even has a diagram drawing with all the measurements.

Damn...I think I got that book around 1985.

[Silent Bob]

Yes there are many books and how-tos all over the net, they're not necessarily hard to find but the quality of the information in them is somewhat questionable.

I find it somewhat odd that posters here seem more skittish about discussing drop-in conversions while suppressor building is discussed freely; both, if done contrary to the law, are probably the same penalty. Maybe it's just my low post count that makes it a little suspicious but in all fairness, I'm not asking for how-tos or schematics, just an academic discussion on design.

[PTK]

And for the AK fans there is this interesting creation from Germany: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMIIC_MIxMA

That will be PERFECT for a post-86 S-12. I had forgotten about that particular method. Thanks.

[rogerme]

[quote="Silent Bob"]I find it somewhat odd that posters here seem more skittish about discussing drop-in conversions while suppressor building is discussed freely; both, if done contrary to the law, are probably the same penalty.[/quote

File a form 1 to build a dias and see what happens.

[copenhagen]

File a form 1 to build a dias and see what happens.

Many would. Ever hear of the Hughes amendment?

[Bugzy]

You have to be a SOT "Special Operations Technician" before the BATFE will permit you to built such a complex device. Call and request a form 13 and your good to go.

Happens every day.

[PTK]

You have to be a SOT "Special Operations Technician" before the BATFE will permit you to built such a complex device. Call and request a form 13 and your good to go.

Happens every day.

Outstanding.

[rogerme]

File a form 1 to build a dias and see what happens.

Many would. Ever hear of the Hughes amendment?

I have read several places about people submitting 1's for making mg's after Regan signed the bill but have never heard of one being sent back with a stamp on it.

[Fastflt1]

And for the AK fans there is this interesting creation from Germany: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMIIC_MIxMA

That will be PERFECT for a post-86 S-12. I had forgotten about that particular method. Thanks.

Works like a watch with sprung steel wire configured correctly.

ETA: Can't be a TG2

[Fastflt1]

I find it somewhat odd that posters here seem more skittish about discussing drop-in conversions while suppressor building is discussed freely, just an academic discussion on design.

The reason for this is, silencers can be designed and build under the form 1 by anyone legally able to possess a firearm.

A DIAS on the other hand,(after May 19, 1986) is non transferable to the same individual, nor are they permitted to design and build.

A discussion "for academic purposes only" would only make it to easy for the uninitiated or felon to gain design and build knowledge on an item that they can not legally possess in the first place. So....why propagate information to the masses?

I believe the member majority here enjoy discussions pertaining to silencer design and not DIAS design because we can't have one. Unless of course you fork over $7000.00-$9000.00 + $200.00 tax stamp on a transferable.

I hate teasing myself over something I can't have or afford, so why waste the mind time.

For academic purposes only..........Read a book and go from there.

[PTK]

And for the AK fans there is this interesting creation from Germany: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMIIC_MIxMA

That will be PERFECT for a post-86 S-12. I had forgotten about that particular method. Thanks.

Works like a watch with sprung steel wire configured correctly.

ETA: Can't be a TG2

I don't recall the last time anything Tapco was near any of my guns. It will be even less of an issue for the company's S-12 since I have yet to even take it out of the import configuration.

[Silent Bob]

You know, there ARE 02/07s on here too that build post-samples.

I give up. You can post suppressor plans and schematics and people from South America who can't even own guns are encouraged with their builds (or any other part of the world where this kind of stuff AIN'T legal), but a discussion on the theory and principles of drop-in conversions is verboten.

[jlwilliams]

(Edited to remove bullshit)

There are some transferable drop in conversions on the market. The AR DIAS, the FN sears, the Uzi kickers anmd of course the M1 to M2 carbine conversion. When the ban was imminent, lots of sears were registered for lots of guns. Not all 'drop ins' by a long shot, but registered sears. Once you have a list of what's out there, there isn't much point to the conversation. There certainly isn't any reason to start talking about what action could be tripped in what way. That conversation goes directly into the 'follow these instructions and go to jail' area. Screw that.

We already all chimed in with what's out there. What more do you hope to learn?

If you are frustrated that we will talk about silencers (which you can do in 35 states with a tax stamp) but we won't talk about converting your rifle, too bad. This is "silencertalk", we are here to talk about....silencers. As far as encouraging South American gun enthusaists, why shouldn't we? How do you know he's not allowed to own a gun there? I presume you are talking about LavaRed. Are you so sure you know the actual legal climate where he lives? I don't and I bet you don't either. Besides, if he's breaking the law there it's no crime for us to aplaud him from here.

The idea that you want to have an intelectal conversation about a drop in FA conversion but you would never break the law is a bit weak. In fact, I'm calling Bullshit. I think you want to come on a sight with lots of 07 SOTs and ask a few pointed questions so you can go ahead and break the law. At the least an aspiring gunsmith looking for others' design work to copy but more likely just a guy who wants a machine gun and thinks it's easier to DIY it.

That's right. I'm calling you a Troll and a Bullshitter. Prove me wrong and then I'll apologise, but for now you sir are blowing smoke rings up our collective ass.

It's way cheaper to buy a legal MG than it is to even start the legal defense for an NFA felony case. Ask Russian. Quit fucking around on the internet, get a second job then go buy a MAC or an Uzi. You can get a MAC with a can and a 22 kit and all the taxes for under $5k. You'll pay that just for the retainer if you get caught with a home brew subgun.

Ball is in your court. If you can show me that I'm wrong I'll man up and publicly admit it. If I'm right, please just go away.

[renegade]

The big problem is a little something called "conspiracy to violate the NFA". People have been charged with it. I'm not sure if they have convicted anybody for just talking about conversions, but you can get charged for it. Just fighting the charge can bankrupt you.

Nonsense. There is no such thing.

There is nothing even remotely illegal about discussing how firearms work.

[jlwilliams]

The big problem is a little something called "conspiracy to violate the NFA". People have been charged with it. I'm not sure if they have convicted anybody for just talking about conversions, but you can get charged for it. Just fighting the charge can bankrupt you.

Nonsense. There is no such thing.

There is nothing even remotely illegal about discussing how firearms work.

After posting earlier I realized where I'd heard that, went and checked and it is, indeed, Bullshit.

The rest of the post and the charge of Trollism stands.

[Baffled]

I'd suggest we move this discussion to safer grounds... like how to build a nuke. There are probably forums where people discuss the pros and cons of U-235 vs. plutonium. It's legal.

The REAL issue here with drop-in FA devices is, no one cares. Can't build one, so no point in wasting brain cells.

[PTK]

The REAL issue here with drop-in FA devices is, no one cares. Can't build one, so no point in wasting brain cells.

Yep, pretty much. I only care because I can work on them now. Before I could, I had little more than a passing interest.