Full auto mod for .22LR upper?

[rogerme]

You need these two magic parts. The long thin auto trip and the heavy chunk aka the anti bounce weight. Sorry there a bit dirty but I use the hell out of them.

In the bolt assy.


By themselves.

[M40A1308M]

There it is in a nut shell BUT wait he said the upper he is using is at 45deg. angle and I believe that won't work but it is the idea.

I get very frustrated that I hear people that SAY that they got there 07\02 and don't do justice to the Busines and only hurt it I.E. RED-Jacket is a good example. And when people can get a 02\07 with R&D capability and they waste it by putting a weld on a Glock to get it to run ful-auto that is just beyond what I can take. Hence my last post.

I would take your time and READ READ READ AND take some local college courses in machining or engineering. What one concern for you should be your finished product last time I checked 07\02's were not handed out for personal FUN and personal collection there are certain obligations and requirements you have to fill with this license. And if your finished product injures anyone then only your lawyer will be able to help you and the BATF will investigate and your license and all your fun toys will be GONE!!!

[mollinst]

"Ok here is were I say good luck. As you stated above that you have completed PROTOTYPES and you have a 07\02 with R&d capability"

Read the thread. I have not made any prototype weapons, only suppressors, and I have only ALTERED one AR-15 for testing purposes.

"well I am at a wonder WHY the Batf gave you a license. And you cannot simply weld a bump and make Glock full auto without being short of being RED-JACKET firearms."

They licensed me because they've been to my shop, had numerous discussions with me, know my motives, did a deep background check, and I guess they think I'm a pretty decent guy. I used the Glock "TIG weld bump" as an example of how insanely simple some alterations can be as opposed to manufacturing sears and other parts to high spec - I don't advocate that method by any means.

"But you have said you are limited in your GUNSMITHS ability and WHAT one day you woke up and decided HUH? JAMES BOND has cool toy's I bet I can make those in my basement."

I am really beginning to feel like we all got off on the wrong foot. I don't know how old you are but my Dad was a class 03 Mfrs Rep back in the '60's, and I was shooting machineguns about the same time most on this board were still watching Bugs Bunny. That doesn't mean I learned how to build them. And yes, I did see "Dr No" - when it was fresh in the theaters actually - but I didn't merely "WAKE UP" yesterday and decide it would be "COOL" to come play on your playground.

"I have a very hard time believing that some of this simple stuff eludes you but yet you have prototyped firearms."


Well, once again, read the thread, Beyond that - CRAP! - I understand more about particle physics than I do programing my own bloody cell phone.

"I have a LARGE shop containing CNC{you know what that stands for I hope} and as I found out it would be very hard to get into that business with out a vast knoledge (sic) of the industry."


My shop is fairly small at 4,000 sq ft, but I do have room for a Fadal and a Fanuc machining center that are set up for wood working, and are very helpful in my main business. I have no intention of re-purposing those machines to make one-offs because, a), it would bring my main business to a screeching halt, and b), I'm rather enjoying working out my ideas on the lathe and mill the old fashion way.

Additionally, IF, and it's a big if, I were to come up with something interesting, and possibly profitable, I'd most likely shop it around to some of the existing companies to access its merit rather than go through another startup. Jeez! Advertising and promotion alone would make the cost of a CNC look like pocket change.

"Hell even RED-Jacket knows more than you are letting on to know or actually know. Or I could be wrong and you are wanting the knowledgeable people her to to design it for you so you may profit from it or maybe out laziness."

Whoever this "RED Jacket"guy is, he sure garners a lot of attention around here but, he may very well know more than I do - I've only gotten myself involved in the, hands-on, MECHANICAL part of this in the last few years.

"I am wondering is this shop of your in your house? And if it is how many entrances does it have?And do you have a company name and operating business hours? Just some questions."

The shop is on my property, but separate from the house. It has two entrances, both with locks and dead bolts, and yes, I have a company name, (three of them actually, for different businesses) but to answer your implied question, no. I have not hung my "JAMES BOND SILENCERS" sign out, and I don't solicit retail business though several Gunsmiths in town have subcontracted me to do some minor, and a couple of major, finishing jobs that they are not equipped for.

"I have seen 02\07 shops that are small and dark and really back wooded but they have simple working knowledge of mechanics and defiantly of firearms.And some really cool weaponry has exited those shops nothing as JACKED as adding a TIG weld to a glock! (sic)"

I think we've beaten that horse beyond decomposition.

"Most that get into R&D have design degrees and mechanic engineering degrees and still would fine it hard to make a prototype but yet not make a simple auto-trip and anti-bouce (sic) weight. As I said good luck!"

Oh fer chrysake... Yes, you, Benderquist, and several others I'm sure, are obviously highly knowledgeable, professional, and may have advanced degrees but, probably 75% of the folks on this board are form 1 builders and, from what I've read here, many of them aren't doing the "building" themselves, they're taking their designs to a machinist. Which is perfectly OK - don't get me wrong. Bottom line is that we are all just trying to learn.

Other than your misunderstanding about my prototyping, have I made any stupendous claims? Have I bragged about what a genius I am? Have I been an ass hole? (Other than some of my comments in THIS post), Or are you pissed simply because I have licenses that YOU don't feel I deserve?

Man... I apologize for bothering you with my miniscule dilemma.

[mollinst]

Thanks Rogerme, those photos are extremely helpful though, as M40A1308M indicated, those exact parts may not work in the Chiappa, but they DO give me a better idea of what I need to fabricate.

See? photos make perfect sense to me. I can see the part that will trip the tab on the M-16 sear, and now, I can imagine in my mind's eye how it'll have to be put together. This all was, really, just that simple.

Thanks again.

[rogerme]

Thanks Rogerme, those photos are extremely helpful though, as M40A1308M indicated, those exact parts may not work in the Chiappa, but they DO give me a better idea of what I need to fabricate.

See? photos make perfect sense to me. I can see the part that will trip the tab on the M-16 sear, and now, I can imagine in my mind's eye how it'll have to be put together. This all was, really, just that simple.

Thanks again.

What the people here are getting annoyed with is the fact hat you went and got a sot and are not as familiar with the workings as many feel you should be prior to getting one. The reason this pisses many of us in the nfa world is not that your trying to succeed it is that when we go to a we expect the guy who owns the place to at least know as much as the junior people here do. The big reason for this is when we take a item to a shop or want something built we want the person doing the work to know what they are doing and be able to do it correct. RJ is a great example of this. There show while "entertaining" is flawed big time and full of lies and miss-truths hence the majority of people who are in the nfa world woudl not buy anything they make as they make us look bad by there actions.

If your going to go the FA22 on the ar platform I highly recommend the cmmg STAINLESS kit I posted the picture of. I have had several kits and not one works as well. The auto kit I have was bought from Spikes but I am not sure they sell them anymore.

This place has information on everything good information at that. Many industry pros hang out here and put there two cents in. If you want the truth your gonna get it in spades even when it is not what you want to hear. That said it will be in your best interest to heed the advice given.

[mollinst]

"This place has information on everything good information at that. Many industry pros hang out here and put there two cents in. If you want the truth your gonna get it in spades even when it is not what you want to hear. That said it will be in your best interest to heed the advice given."

Thanks and, I understand completely - the authoritative input is exactly what brought me here . I am not however, as I think I've previously stated, seeking any sort of retail clientele, I haven't hung out a sign, don't offer my services, and I make no claims to NFA expertise. I am, as stated, a humble R&D type guy who likes to bring his ideas to fruition and see if they're worth a damn. I have no intent - at all - of putting the NFA community in a bad light in any way.

I'm not "RED JACKET" and I don't spout off on all of the things I might think I'm an "expert" in, as he evidently does. In fact, I thought it was the right thing to do in my opening post, to admit my ignorance and seek the advice of those I respect... I didn't think I'd get a ton of immediate help, but I certainly didn't expect a spanking.

Hopefully, we'll get past this, and some of us may actually become friends.

Edit: Oh, and thanks for the cmmg recommendation. I may just have to go that way and sell the Chiappa upper.

[M40A1308M]

Well your above statement while impressive looking still has great HOLES in it and don't make sense. You claim to have been around guns MOST of your natural life and even had a family member IN THE BUSINESS but yet lack the simple comprehension of how fire arms work HUH? My father on the other hand bought every gun he saw and I knew about auto sears and trips and cams by the age of 12 so you see we are a product of what we are a custom to. But again you seem to lack certain knowledge in this field. Now I know not everyone is going to know every thing about guns how could they, but when someone say's I am a 07\02 with R&D we expect they know the basics. And even my slight on you prototyping firearms isn't wrong just misplaced because any 07\02 would know that a suppressor IS in fact a FIREARM!!!! But I will give you that one. I think generally it is the holes in your stories that are making us uncomfortable. And why is just tonight I was with a newly appointed 07\02 and they are already running a H&K 91 with a .22lr 275rd drum with no stoppages at 5000 round mark and he does not have a engineering degree but has the general knowledge to get this far in a short time. Now that will be a cool product and if it is marketed and sold will do well in a very small market. He will have to sell allot of them or at a high price to pay for all that one has to go thru to manufacture ,invent,and market a item. But I seems if indeed you have the license you are using it for personal fun time and not really what it was intended for.

[mollinst]

"Well your above statement while impressive looking still has great HOLES in it and don't make sense. You claim to have been around guns MOST of your natural life and even had a family member IN THE BUSINESS but yet lack the simple comprehension of how fire arms work HUH?"

M, (may I call you M?) You obviously don't read full sentences, or, you're just looking for "holes in my story" for whatever misplaced reason. I have been around firearms most of my life, and my Dad DID occasionally bring some fun stuff home as samples. I DO comprehend how firearms work BUT, as I said, that doesn't make me a qualified Gunsmith - especially on the particular project I was looking for answers on.

OK. You want the truth? - it'll sound like bragging but - I've become really good at what I call the "lipstick" work, especially on Colts. Beaver-tails, triggers, hammers, custom grips, all kinds of milling and porting, and I can checker the front strap of a 1911 at 28 lpi in about 2 hours by hand, and according to one of our local guys whose custom pistols have been on prominent magazine covers about 9 times, my work looks better than Kimber's CNC job. He's probably being a bit over-generous there, but I gotta love him for it.

"My father on the other hand bought every gun he saw and I knew about auto sears and trips and cams by the age of 12 so you see we are a product of what we are a custom to."

My hat's off to you - you're obviously a natural. My dad SOLD the guns, but wasn't all that adept at gunsmithing. That's what I was accustomed to, but I'm trying to learn anyway

"But again you seem to lack certain knowledge in this field. Now I know not everyone is going to know every thing about guns how could they, but when someone say's I am a 07\02 with R&D we expect they know the basics. And even my slight on you prototyping firearms isn't wrong just misplaced because any 07\02 would know that a suppressor IS in fact a FIREARM!!!! But I will give you that one."

Gee, thanks. But we're arguing semantics again. Yes, the NFA considers a suppressor a firearm only for their purposes but, I think we both know that a suppressor will not fire a cartridge by itself, so...

"I think generally it is the holes in your stories that are making us uncomfortable."

well, again - I think you're just looking for holes - I certainly haven't tried to mislead anyone on anything.

"And why is just tonight I was with a newly appointed 07\02 and they are already running a H&K 91 with a .22lr 275rd drum with no stoppages at 5000 round mark and he does not have a engineering degree but has the general knowledge to get this far in a short time. Now that will be a cool product and if it is marketed and sold will do well in a very small market. He will have to sell allot of them or at a high price to pay for all that one has to go thru to manufacture ,invent,and market a item. But I seems if indeed you have the license you are using it for personal fun time and not really what it was intended for."

Oh... Now I'm disappointed in you for not recognizing your own double standard before hitting the "submit" button. Your buddy is turning a .308 into a .22LR with an almost 300 rnd drum and, as you stated, "He will have to sell allot of them or at a high price to pay for all that one has to go thru to manufacture ,invent,and market a item.", but I'M the one who's, "using it for personal fun time and not really what it was intended for."

WTFO?

[M40A1308M]

You obliviously missed the point of the 07/02 story. Here is for you. Thanks and good luck!

[dvanncvann]

Give the guy a break......Geeeez . I have been a gunsmith for 25 years. I am an armorer for the local sheriffs office and handle all sorts of weapons but I don't know every detail of every weapon available. I have built 10 or 12 form 1 suppressors, converted numerous rifles to sbr( yes I have the stamps), gas pistons, various calibers, 1 off beltfeds , hybrids, etc all in the name of R&D and just because it was fun. I quess I'm not worthy of an 07/02 either by the criteria presented here. But if I decided I wanted one.....well you know . Lighten up guys. He had a legitimate question.

[M40A1308M]

This I am not totally sure is correct but you also say you have done R&D and beltfed's for the sheriffs dept???? I am not sure that's totally on the up in up either unless they have licensing to do so. { I guess if the belt fed would just plug in on a m16 or 416 lower it would be ok}

See this is my very point everybody just can't go around and R&D machine guns and NFA weapons. We have allot of police around here that think they can do what ever they want just because they are LE but you still need the proper license and paper work to do these things NOW this is probably not such in your case sir or at least I hope it's not. When you are issued a MP5 or H&k 416 for swat you are given dept paperwork to carry with the weapon. You and all officers have to have some sort of traceability of the weapons in your dept. If the BTAF come and do a audit and they can when ever they wish to they will go and look at every single weapon in the dept and if it does not match the books well you know were that will lead. I have been present at 2 BATF audits and they took 3 weeks for a small shop.

I didn't mean to attack so abruptly on this it is a strong subject that I am around allot and I didn't want the OP if he has a 07/02 to make a huge mistake and loose it over doing something dumb. Or get him self in trouble if he was only a 02 and made a illegal machine gun. Just most 07/02 I have had contact with have had a better understanding of things and that's why this came off being odd.

[dvanncvann]

Noooooooooooo..........What I said was that I am an ARMORER for the sheriff dept. All the other weapons were built
by me for me with the proper stamps where applicable. Beltfed does not mean full auto or select fire.

[mollinst]

"I didn't want the OP if he has a 07/02 to make a huge mistake and loose it over doing something dumb."

That's BS. You simply have a good time beating your chest.

"Or get him self in trouble if he was only a 02 and made a illegal machine gun."

Well, I think the shoe is on the other foot now... You can't have an NFA 02 SOT without the BATFE 07 FFL first. So all opinions being equal, I think you're the one who needs to do a little more homework.

And try not to use clip-art with wannabe catchy phrases on them to make your point - that is soooo 7th grade cheerleader.

[mpallett]

"I didn't want the OP if he has a 07/02 to make a huge mistake and loose it over doing something dumb."

That's BS. You simply have a good time beating your chest.

"Or get him self in trouble if he was only a 02 and made a illegal machine gun."

Well, I think the shoe is on the other foot now... You can't have an NFA 02 SOT without the BATFE 07 FFL first. So all opinions being equal, I think you're the one who needs to do a little more homework.

And try not to use clip-art with wannabe catchy phrases on them to make your point - that is soooo 7th grade cheerleader.

This is easy to solve.

I am an 07/FFL. (my own personal license).

I was part of SWR before it was sold to SilencerCO.

There are many other 07's here.

Email me an FFL/SOT and I will confirm to the board here that you are infact "real". I won't release the info.

or, give us the info required so we ca look it up on the ez-check system.

[mollinst]

Well thanks. This is an offer I suggested some number of posts ago. Now, I just tried to attach a .JPEG image to a PM for you, but it doesn't look to me like it was successful.

I'm sure they're printed somewhere but, if somebody can explain this forum's process, I'll appreciate it. BTW, all of my photos are in my computers and off-board hard drives. I can't send you to a "photo-bucket" type of URL.

[Bendersquint]

Well thanks. This is an offer I suggested some number of posts ago. Now, I just tried to attach a .JPEG image to a PM for you, but it doesn't look to me like it was successful.

I'm sure they're printed somewhere but, if somebody can explain this forum's process, I'll appreciate it. BTW, all of my photos are in my computers and off-board hard drives. I can't send you to a "photo-bucket" type of URL.

Go to the ATF EZ Check webpage and enter into the blanks all the numbers it asks for from your FFL.

Then you can send either me or matt the numbers it asked for and we will verify it.

[Bendersquint]

I have verified the FFL number that he has provided is indeed a valid FFL.

[rogerme]

I have verified the FFL number that he has provided is indeed a valid FFL.

Glad we cleared that up.

[mollinst]

Thanks for your help and encouragement guys. I'll just go back to my hole now.

[Bowen1911]

lol

[Duren]

Gentlemen,

For sometime I worked for a suppressor company manufacturing suppressors of various calibers. We attended the "Silencer Shoots" every year and our suppressors were up their with the big name companies, just as quiet and we never had a malfuction. After this, I would go onto the forum and try to discuss various aspects of suppression. On most days some know it all jackass would try to be a smartass and make me look stupid, I would not argue with these idiots, I feel bad dueling with the ill prepared. It took quite some time for me to come back to the forum because of these dumb ass couch commandos who wouldnt understand the process of a suppressor even if you drew it out in crayon. Which brings me to my point, You have a guy asking a question about a mod for a .22 upper. I know the guy and have for years. He has far more intelect and blood sweat and tears put into this art then most ever will. He is not doing it for the money, he's doing it for the art of suppression. So you self made intellects should back off and lets try to help one another rather then try to look cool to the rest of our clicky forum buddies. If you all knew this gentleman you that were being asses would feel rather stupid. I'm sure he could help you far more then he needs your help. I'm not trying to start a forum war, I'd just like to see the use of the forum for what it was intended, to help one another and have great discussions.

btw,his 07 and 02 SOT ARE legit.

[Bendersquint]

Gentlemen,

For sometime I worked for a suppressor company manufacturing suppressors of various calibers. We attended the "Silencer Shoots" every year and our suppressors were up their with the big name companies, just as quiet and we never had a malfuction. After this, I would go onto the forum and try to discuss various aspects of suppression. On most days some know it all jackass would try to be a smartass and make me look stupid, I would not argue with these idiots, I feel bad dueling with the ill prepared. It took quite some time for me to come back to the forum because of these dumb ass couch commandos who wouldnt understand the process of a suppressor even if you drew it out in crayon. Which brings me to my point, You have a guy asking a question about a mod for a .22 upper. I know the guy and have for years. He has far more intelect and blood sweat and tears put into this art then most ever will. He is not doing it for the money, he's doing it for the art of suppression. So you self made intellects should back off and lets try to help one another rather then try to look cool to the rest of our clicky forum buddies. If you all knew this gentleman you that were being asses would feel rather stupid. I'm sure he could help you far more then he needs your help. I'm not trying to start a forum war, I'd just like to see the use of the forum for what it was intended, to help one another and have great discussions.

btw,his 07 and 02 SOT ARE legit.

Welcome to the forum.

[mollinst]

Gentlemen,

For sometime I worked for a suppressor company manufacturing suppressors of various calibers. We attended the "Silencer Shoots" every year and our suppressors were up their with the big name companies, just as quiet and we never had a malfuction. After this, I would go onto the forum and try to discuss various aspects of suppression. On most days some know it all jackass would try to be a smartass and make me look stupid, I would not argue with these idiots, I feel bad dueling with the ill prepared. It took quite some time for me to come back to the forum because of these dumb ass couch commandos who wouldnt understand the process of a suppressor even if you drew it out in crayon. Which brings me to my point, You have a guy asking a question about a mod for a .22 upper. I know the guy and have for years. He has far more intelect and blood sweat and tears put into this art then most ever will. He is not doing it for the money, he's doing it for the art of suppression. So you self made intellects should back off and lets try to help one another rather then try to look cool to the rest of our clicky forum buddies. If you all knew this gentleman you that were being asses would feel rather stupid. I'm sure he could help you far more then he needs your help. I'm not trying to start a forum war, I'd just like to see the use of the forum for what it was intended, to help one another and have great discussions.

btw,his 07 and 02 SOT ARE legit.

Jeez man... Your biggest problem is that you sugar-coat everything - I can never tell where you really stand!
Seriously, thanks for the vote of confidence. I owe you a call - it's been a while.

Guys,
While Mr Duren thinks I'm "all that", I certainly don't profess to be any kind of genius myself. I just want to explore suppression technologies and have fun doing it. If some of you feel that that is a misuse of my licensure, I'm sorry about that but, refuse to loose any sleep over it.

For those of you who've sent positive messages, whether by board or PM, I thank you. I'll be around and in contact, and, the next time I think about posting here, I'll try to make my conundrum as complicated as I possibly can. NO MORE STUPID QUESTIONS!

[rogerme]

Gentlemen,

For sometime I worked for a suppressor company manufacturing suppressors of various calibers. We attended the "Silencer Shoots" every year and our suppressors were up their with the big name companies, just as quiet and we never had a malfuction. After this, I would go onto the forum and try to discuss various aspects of suppression. On most days some know it all jackass would try to be a smartass and make me look stupid, I would not argue with these idiots, I feel bad dueling with the ill prepared. It took quite some time for me to come back to the forum because of these dumb ass couch commandos who wouldnt understand the process of a suppressor even if you drew it out in crayon. Which brings me to my point, You have a guy asking a question about a mod for a .22 upper. I know the guy and have for years. He has far more intelect and blood sweat and tears put into this art then most ever will. He is not doing it for the money, he's doing it for the art of suppression. So you self made intellects should back off and lets try to help one another rather then try to look cool to the rest of our clicky forum buddies. If you all knew this gentleman you that were being asses would feel rather stupid. I'm sure he could help you far more then he needs your help. I'm not trying to start a forum war, I'd just like to see the use of the forum for what it was intended, to help one another and have great discussions.

btw,his 07 and 02 SOT ARE legit.

Well we do not know him. Thus the skepticism. Also just because YOU say he is ok is supposed help how?

[Duren]

Silent but deadly, catchy name. It truly reflects your intelligence. You seem like a utter idiot and I refuse to get into a battle of witts with you. Go back to stroking your kit gun with the silencer and praying for the day the communist invade so then, maybe then you can be the hero you see in the latest action flick. You my friend are an idiot. GFY.